# Has there ever been a genuine surprise in the draft? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 15, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836 "2011-03-15T21:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/41 "2011-03-16T18:13:13Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > At any rate, without a CBA in place, even if the teams do draft players, I don’t think that they can have any conversations with those players, or sign them to contracts. (An interesting question – can a representative from the drafting team even pose for a picture with the team’s draftee at the draft?) I recall they can fly them into town and have some announcements and meets and greets and what not, but no practices. Then they can’t have contact with them a week after the draft. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/42 "2011-03-16T18:28:14Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > The Dolphins taking Ted Ginn at #9 in 2007 was a pretty huge surprise. Especially since they traded Wes Welker to get that pick (who does everything Ginn does, only extremely better). ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/43 "2011-03-16T18:32:17Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Especially since they traded Wes Welker to get that pick (who does everything Ginn does, only extremely better). Huh? Welker had a second round tender, the Patriots traded their second and seventh rounders for him. The first rounder was the Dolphin’s pick for that year, not the result of a trade. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/44 "2011-03-16T18:38:04Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > May I infer that if the NFL now proceeds with the draft without a collective bargaining agreement in place that they might again be in violation of anti-trust/restraint of trade laws? Once again, from my brief look at it, it looks like the NFL is ahead of the game. The CBA that just “expired” contained a specific stipulation that said this years’ draft can continue as it was. The application of that agreement would be subject to lawsuits, of course, but it is likely that, given that both parties have a history of, and expectation of, continued relationship, that the expiring CBA may outweigh the potential anti-trust violations. Next year, however, there would be no stipulation. And if the sides don’t agree to it in the interim, I would think a judge would be convinced to order the NFL not to have a draft. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/45 "2011-03-16T18:42:18Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Huh? Welker had a second round tender, the Patriots traded their second and seventh rounders for him. The first rounder was the Dolphin’s pick for that year, not the result of a trade. My bad. But that just makes the pick that much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/46 "2011-03-16T21:44:44Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > The Raiders had already pulled a stunner earlier in the same draft by taking WR Darrius Heyward-Bey at #7 overall. Heyward-Bey was rated as a reach if picked at the end of the first round and a gamble in the second. The Heyward-Bey pick doesn’t really qualify IMHO. He wasn’t truly a shock. He was the fasted player at the combine and he was an almost certain first round prospect. The Raiders were almost certainly taking a WR in the round. Most everyone had Crabtree and Maclin rated ahead of him, but Heyward-Bey was projected to go in the middle to late teen or early twenties. No one was genuinely shocked that the Raiders favored elite speed over production, even if no one really agreed with the pick either. DHB was probably less of a shocker than the Jags taking Tyson Alualu with the 10th overall pick in 2010 since Alualu was generally considered a Day 2 prospect by most. Still, he was on everyone’s board and he fit a need for the Jags. The Mike Mitchel pick is the template for this phenomenon though. People were literally clueless about who he was and had no idea he’d be drafted at all let alone in the second round. Days later it was rumored that a couple other teams had him on their radar too but on the day of the draft that wasn’t the case and it’s unclear if those “other teams” were anything more than a figment of Al Davis’s imagination. ---
**Author:** ![President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/47 "2011-03-16T22:49:03Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > A surprise of a different color- > > In 2003 the Vikings let their clock run out, caught up in a tangled mess of trades. The Jaguars and Panthers swooped in and made their picks before the Vikings could recover and get in their pick. It really sped up that draft. Mel Kiper had some harsh words about the Vikings after that. The Vikings certainly messed that up, but indications were that they were trying to swap picks with Baltimore, allowing the Ravens to take Byron Leftwich. The Vikings would drop to 10 and take Kevin Williams. In the mess that followed, the Vikings still ended up with Williams. I don’t think anyone can claim that he was a bad choice. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/48 "2011-03-16T23:19:18Z")
> [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](#): > > The Vikings certainly messed that up, but indications were that they were trying to swap picks with Baltimore, allowing the Ravens to take Byron Leftwich. The Vikings would drop to 10 and take Kevin Williams. In the mess that followed, the Vikings still ended up with Williams. I don’t think anyone can claim that he was a bad choice. No, I agree. It was just a shocking surprise that they didn’t get their pick in. In the end they lost out on a couple of draft picks they could have used, had they traded down. The Ravens may have gotten the best part of the deal, ending up with Joe Flacco a few years later instead of Byron Leftwhich. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/49 "2011-03-17T00:46:22Z")
Quick question: How does signing a “joe off the street” to an NFL contract interact with the draft? That is, I’m sure there have been instances where people were signed to contracts without having declared for the draft or even playing in college. How does this work? Specifically, what’s stopping a player from graduating from college, not declaring for the draft, then becoming a “joe” and signing wherever he pleased? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/50 "2011-03-17T01:03:58Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > Quick question: How does signing a “joe off the street” to an NFL contract interact with the draft? > > That is, I’m sure there have been instances where people were signed to contracts without having declared for the draft or even playing in college. How does this work? Specifically, what’s stopping a player from graduating from college, not declaring for the draft, then becoming a “joe” and signing wherever he pleased? 1. As noted above, you can’t be eligible to play in the NFL – period – until something like 2 1/2 years after your high school graduation, even if you don’t go to college. That’s why Eric Swann had to play semi-pro ball for three years before he could enter the NFL. 2. I think (and I may be wrong) that you only “declare” for the draft if you’re an underclassman who is intending on leaving school early for the NFL. If you graduate (or if your class is graduating), you may be automatically eligible for the draft. 3. Guys sign as free agents after the draft all the time…but they’re always the more marginal players, who simply didn’t get drafted because no one wanted to spend a draft pick on them. While a few undrafted free agents have done well in the NFL, it’s a hard way in. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/51 "2011-03-17T01:29:09Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > 1. I think (and I may be wrong) that you only “declare” for the draft if you’re an underclassman who is intending on leaving school early for the NFL. If you graduate (or if your class is graduating), you may be automatically eligible for the draft. After further review… It looks like you do need to do something to “declare” for the draft…at a minimum, it looks like you need to hire an agent: > **[NFL draft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nfl_draft#Eligibility)** > > The NFL draft, officially known as the Annual Player Selection Meeting, is an annual event which serves as the most common source of player recruitment in the National Football League. Each team is given a position in the drafting order in reverse order relative to its record in the previous year, which means that the team with the worst record is positioned first and the Super Bowl champion is last. For teams that had the same record, their position in the draft order for each round rotate Cer... Players who don’t enter the draft (such as missing the filing deadline, intentionally or not) wind up in the “supplemental draft”: > **[NFL draft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nfl_draft#Supplemental_Draft)** > > The NFL draft, officially known as the Annual Player Selection Meeting, is an annual event which serves as the most common source of player recruitment in the National Football League. Each team is given a position in the drafting order in reverse order relative to its record in the previous year, which means that the team with the worst record is positioned first and the Super Bowl champion is last. For teams that had the same record, their position in the draft order for each round rotate Cer... While several players (Bernie Kosar, Brian Bosworth) have used the supplemental draft to avoid being drafted by a particular team (or to engineer being selected by their preferred team), it looks like every player who has been drafted in the supplemental draft since 1998 has done so because they left school, or lost their academic eligibility. I’m not sure if there’s an avenue for entering the NFL (at least, not from college) without declaring your eligibility for the draft. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/52 "2011-03-17T01:30:11Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Shawn Bradley was a bust, certainly, but nobody was surprised that he was drafted second overall. MOST of the draft analysts expected him to be one of the first few players drafted- several predicted he’d be the first overall pick, period. The 76ers themselves considered Bradley a gamble as they were signing him. [http://www.nytimes.com/1993/07/29/sports/sports-people-pro-basketball-a-big-gamble-on-bradley-a-big-player.html?src=pm](http://www.nytimes.com/1993/07/29/sports/sports-people-pro-basketball-a-big-gamble-on-bradley-a-big-player.html?src=pm) ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/53 "2011-03-17T03:51:56Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The Heyward-Bey pick doesn’t really qualify IMHO. He wasn’t truly a shock. He was the fasted player at the combine and he was an almost certain first round prospect… The Mitchel pick was a bigger “whaaaaaaaa!?,” but Heyward-Bey, I think, still qualifies. He would have been a big reach even in the latter part of the first. A few mock drafts accurately predicted the early pick, but what was a true shocker was that the Raiders didn’t even try to save any money and get extra picks by trading back and still getting their guy. It proved Al Davis was really just that stubborn. It also sent shockwaves behind them. The 49ers were set on Michael Oher at #10, but took Crabtree instead, not expecting him to be available. This sent Oher to the Ravens later on. ---
**Author:** ![President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/54 "2011-03-17T22:37:25Z")
Wikipedia has a list of [prominent undrafted NFL and NBA players](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undrafted_sportsperson). I don’t know if that’s a complete list of undrafted Pro Bowlers, it’s worth noting that the Pro Bowl invites more players annually than appear on the list. As a Vikings fan, I like seeing John Randle there. Are there any other undrafted FAs who have made the Hall of Fame since the merger? (A couple on the list have good shots however.) ---
**Author:** ![mbetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@mbetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbetter)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/55 "2011-03-18T17:55:21Z")
For the NHL, I think the Buffalo Sabres drafting star center Taro Tsujimoto of the Tokyo Katanas 183rd overall in 1974 would count, especially as both the player and team were completely fictional. > **[Taro Tsujimoto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taro_Tsujimoto)** > > Taro Tsujimoto\[a\] is a fictitious Japanese ice hockey player who was selected in the 1974 National Hockey League Draft as the 183rd overall pick by the Buffalo Sabres. The decision to draft a non-existent player was made by Sabres general manager Punch Imlach, who was frustrated by the absurd length of the draft, and in the late rounds decided to have fun and draft someone unusual. Together with Sabres director of communications Paul Wieland, they created Taro Tsujimoto, a twenty-year-old Japanes... ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/56 "2011-03-18T18:14:33Z")
> [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](#): > > Are there any other undrafted FAs who have made the Hall of Fame since the merger? (A couple on the list have good shots however.) I was surprised that Jan Stenerud (the only pure kicker in the HOF) wasn’t on that Wikipedia list. As far as I can tell, he was signed by the Chiefs as a free agent out of Montana State in '67. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/57 "2011-03-18T18:53:56Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I was surprised that Jan Stenerud (the only pure kicker in the HOF) wasn’t on that Wikipedia list. As far as I can tell, he was signed by the Chiefs as a free agent out of Montana State in '67. Well, that was before the 1970 merger. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/58 "2011-03-18T18:59:01Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Well, that was before the 1970 merger. True, though most of Stenerud’s career was post-merger. By '67, when he joined the Chiefs, [the AFL-NFL merger has already been agreed upon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Football_League#Escalation_and_merger_.281966.E2.80.9367.29), and was underway, including a common draft and a championship game (what became the Super Bowl) – though, of course, the merger wasn’t finalized until after the '69 season. In looking at the Wikipedia list again, it definitely skews towards players from the last 10-15 years, and I wouldn’t take it as a complete list of such players (even in the post-merger era). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/59 "2011-03-18T19:36:07Z")
> [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](#): > > Wikipedia has a list of [prominent undrafted NFL and NBA players](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undrafted_sportsperson). I don’t know if that’s a complete list of undrafted Pro Bowlers, it’s worth noting that the Pro Bowl invites more players annually than appear on the list. > > As a Vikings fan, I like seeing John Randle there. Are there any other undrafted FAs who have made the Hall of Fame since the merger? (A couple on the list have good shots however.) Lists like yours are aways interesting and instructive, but in THIS case, none of the names on your list count as “surprises.” NOBODY shrieked “Why didn’t anybody draft Priest Holmes?” back in May of 1997. NOBODY was wondering “Why didn’t anybody draft Kurt Warner?” back in May of 1994. They both turned out to be stars, which led some people to ask years later, “How did the scouts not see how great those guys were?” But it wasn’t surprising to anybody at the time that nobody drafted them. The OP seemed to be asking NOT for undrafted players who turned out to be stars, and NOT for high draft picks who turned out to be terrible. He’s asking for high draft picks that made people say, “Huh? Who’s that? I’ve never heard of him,” or “What? I had him as a 4th round pick, TOPS.” And such surprises are VERY rare, nowadays. Shawn Bradley flopped in the NBA, but if the 76ers hadn’t taken him second overall, somebody else would have taken him at the third or fourth spot. SOMEBODY was definitely going to take him very high. He was a bad pick, but NOT a surprise. The other type of “surprise,” of course, is when a highly touted player isn’t drafted until very late, or isn’t drafted at all. THIS is one example of such a player: [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/tim\_layden/04/27/five.and.out/index.html](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/tim_layden/04/27/five.and.out/index.html) Offensive tackle Anthony Munoz of the Bengals was a perennial All-Pro and a Hall of Famer. His son Michael was an All-American lineman at Tennessee, and was expected to be a high draft pick. There were TV cameras waiting at his house, to record the phone call he was sure to get from some NFL team. But no call ever came. He didn’t just slide to a later round, he was ignored completely, and never got drafted at all. Afterward, he was invited to several NFL camps as a free agent, but he decided not to pursue football any further. He was a very smart kid and had already earned his degree. He figured it was time to grow up and get a “real” job. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836/60 "2011-03-19T04:23:29Z")
I think this one may qualify for the OP. In 1989, the Pittsburgh Steelers drafted a wrestler who never played college football. His name was [Carlton Haselrig](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Haselrig), and he went to college at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, a school with no football program, and a Division II wrestling program. He was drafted in the 12th round (312 overall), and not only made the team as a guard, but was selected to the Pro Bowl in his third season. Off the field problems made him expendable by the Steelers… Haselrig ended up playing a year for the Jets before retiring from football, but he is a great story and has an interestng bio. For example: Haselrig owns 6 NCAA Heavyweight wrestling championships, a mark that will never be broken or tied (the NCAA has changed the rules to eliminate the possibility of another 6 time champion). He is the most decorated wrestler in NCAA history. He went undefeated during his career and won three Division I and three Division II individual national championships. (Division II champions got invited to the Division I championship). This is no longer the case, making his record unbreakable. Haselrig also owns two PA state high school wrestling championships, even though his high school didn’t have a wrestling program. He entered the state tourney and swept the heavyweight division to win the state championship in the two years he entered. He was an excellent Pro football player also, becoming a Pro-Bowl selection in his third year. He had a potentially great career in front of him cut short by off-the-field issues. Truly a shame. I for one, always thought he had the potential to be a HOF lineman if he had a long career. He just seemed to get better every season. But when his career sidetracked, he was out of the NFL quickly. Still, I can’t think of any other NFL player drafted from a school with no football program, but was a great wrestler. Chuck Noll felt that Haselrig would know the concept of using his body for leverage, and he was proven right. Most people recognize the name Curt Angle, the Olympic Gold Medalist. Haselrig defeated Angle in the NCAA’s. If he’s not a surprise, I don’t know who is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-genuine-surprise-in-the-draft/574836.md?page=4)