# has there ever been a government that didn't collect taxes?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [August 24, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534 "2009-08-24T18:30:20Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/1 "2009-08-24T18:30:20Z")
[This post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11478436&postcount=39) got me wondering: has there ever been a government (say above the local level) that didn’t collect some kind of taxes from its citizens? If so, how well did it work out?
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/2 "2009-08-24T19:04:51Z")
Are you just interested in taxes from citizens, or no taxes whatsoever? Alaska might qualify on the first count, but they get a ton of tax money from the oil companies.
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### Author:  [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/3 "2009-08-24T19:19:21Z")
I’m just interested in taxes from citizens. Does Alaska collect any kind of tax money from its citizens (sales tax, property tax, etc.)?
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### Author:  [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/4 "2009-08-24T19:20:35Z")
And what do you consider a tax? Some of the Middle Eastern countries have no general income tax, but they have all sorts of usage fees for various items and services (taxes a la cart).
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### Author:  [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/5 "2009-08-24T19:38:14Z")
Qatar doesn’t charge any taxes. There is no income or sales tax here. There are fees for various services (getting a driver’s license, etc.), but no taxes. The gov’t controls the fossil fuel revenues, and funds its operations that way.
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### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/6 "2009-08-24T19:44:58Z")
Alaska does not have any state taxes because they can fund the entire state budget with oil royalties. They also give the excess royalties back to citizens, lately it’s been around $1000 per person per year but it varies with how much oil is pumped. I don’t recall if they have local taxes.
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### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/7 "2009-08-24T20:07:07Z")
I cant think of a good example, but I believe there were many governemnts that cllected almost no taxes from citizens, but did collect tariffs.
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### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/8 "2009-08-24T20:10:14Z")
The Pacific Island nation of Nauru would be a good case to look at, at least before the phosphate deposits were (pretty much) used up.
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### Author:  [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/9 "2009-08-24T21:04:27Z")
There was no federal income tax in the U.S.A. until [1861](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_income_tax_(history)#First_income_tax_law). There must’ve been some other taxes, though; customs duties couldn’t support the gov’t all by itself, could it?
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### Author:  [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/10 "2009-08-24T21:13:56Z")
> [@Keeve](#):
>
> There was no federal income tax in the U.S.A. until [1861](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_income_tax_(history)#First_income_tax_law). There must’ve been some other taxes, though; customs duties couldn’t support the gov’t all by itself, could it?
Sure could, except when we were at war. Although, there were also federal land sales which were important in some years (but not much after the Civil War, when there was free homesteading.)
With respect to the OP, there have been some governments which lived off of plunder–the early Mongols, for example–and thus had no need to tax their own people. For a while, anyway. Eventually you run out of new lands to conquer.
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### Author:  [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/11 "2009-08-24T23:16:43Z")
The principality of Monaco is entirely funded by the profits from the Monte Carlo Casino. Its citizens pay no taxes whatsoever.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/12 "2009-08-24T23:48:44Z")
> [@Keeve](#):
>
> There was no federal income tax in the U.S.A. until [1861](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_income_tax_(history)#First_income_tax_law). There must’ve been some other taxes, though; customs duties couldn’t support the gov’t all by itself, could it?
Not only tariffs, but taxes on booze, tobacco and the like. Alcohol taxes were a significant item of revenue. Thus “moonshine” and “revenuers” .
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### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/13 "2009-08-25T00:13:45Z")
Alaska localities certainly have sales taxes and property taxes. How else would you pay for schools?
There is no state sales tax or income tax, the bulk of the state revenue comes from royalties from resource extraction. There are also the usual plethora of fees for this and surcharges for that and licenses for the other thing.
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### Author:  [@Number43](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number43)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/14 "2009-08-25T05:50:30Z")
In short, it depends on how you define government and taxes.
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### Author:  [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/15 "2009-08-25T13:52:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Not only tariffs, but taxes on booze, tobacco and the like. Alcohol taxes were a significant item of revenue. Thus “moonshine” and “revenuers” .
Between 1817 and 1861, there were no excise taxes. After the Civil War, the wartime excises on alcohol and tobacco remained in place, and generally provided about half as much revenue as tariffs.
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### Author:  [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/16 "2009-08-25T14:47:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Does Alaska collect any kind of tax money from its citizens (sales tax, property tax, etc.)?
about '92-'94 or so some Alaskan cities had a sales tax on some items. Alaska once had an 8 cent gasoline tax. I believe that they have a steep excise tax on alcohol.
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### Author:  [@Never\_Say\_Dice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Say_Dice)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/17 "2009-08-25T16:41:44Z")
I think the “recycling deposit” on containers should be counted as a tax, since they know that not all of the “deposit” will be returned.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/18 "2009-08-25T16:50:01Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#):
>
> Sure could, except when we were at war…
Quite true. Tariff collections in New York were so huge, and so integral to the Federal budget, that Fernando Wood, the mayor of New York City, could half-credibly suggest that the city secede and declare independence at the outbreak of the Civil War in 1861, keeping the money for itself. President Lincoln joked, “I reckon the front door isn’t ready to set up housekeeping all by itself just yet,” and nothing ever came of it.
Chester Arthur served as Collector of Customs for the Port of New York, the most sought-after (i.e. personally lucrative) patronage post at the time, but fortunately he proved to be a much more honest President.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/19 "2009-08-25T16:56:10Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#):
>
> Between 1817 and 1861, there were no excise taxes. After the Civil War, the wartime excises on alcohol and tobacco remained in place, and generally provided about half as much revenue as tariffs.
Do you have a cite?
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### Author:  [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-government-that-didnt-collect-taxes/507534/20 "2009-08-25T20:59:11Z")
> [@Never\_Say\_Dice](#):
>
> I think the “recycling deposit” on containers should be counted as a tax, since they know that not all of the “deposit” will be returned.
Yes, but at least originally that money did not go to the state. Here in CT there was a “fight” about that not too long ago with the state trying to get the unrefunded money and bottlers claiming they need it to pay for collecting the cans and bottles. I don’t recall how this was resolved.
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