# Has there ever been a Protestant dictator? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 16, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073 "2013-03-16T03:56:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/21 "2013-03-16T06:25:32Z")
Oliver Cromwell. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/22 "2013-03-16T07:06:44Z")
I think you can make a strong argument that Ulrich Zwingli was a dictator. While he may not have held the official title, when he gave commands they were obeyed. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/23 "2013-03-16T12:04:26Z")
[Hastings Banda](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastings_Banda) of Malawi was a Presbyterian and had been an elder of the Church of Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/24 "2013-03-16T13:04:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That doesn’t make him a dictator. Lincoln was neither an absolute ruler, nor did he come to power through non-constitutional means. Those things are true of many people I’d count dictators. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/25 "2013-03-16T13:28:26Z")
Interesting. Just to muddy the waters on the South/Central American figures, > [@74westy](#): > > [Efraín Ríos Montt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efra%C3%ADn_R%C3%ADos_Montt) of Guatemala. Wikipedia says he was raised Catholic and switched religions late in life > [@Colibri](#): > > [Desi Bouterse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9si_Bouterse) of Suriname is Pentecostal. Not sure about this guy either. The Wikipedia entry says both Pentecostal and Catholic, and this [link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Suriname) calls him a Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/26 "2013-03-16T13:31:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That doesn’t make him a dictator. Lincoln was neither an absolute ruler, nor did he come to power through non-constitutional means. Your suggestion is an absurd stretch. More importantly, he wasn’t a Protestant. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/27 "2013-03-16T13:37:09Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > More importantly, he wasn’t a Protestant. What was he then? ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/28 "2013-03-16T13:46:21Z")
Looking at Wikipedia’s [List of Dictators in Modern Times](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictator#List_of_dictators_in_modern_times) (not evaluating their assessment of the nature of rule; and religion is not listed for everyone) Frank Bainimarama (Fiji) - Methodist Adolf Hitler (Germany) - Conflicting, raised Catholic, publicly somewhat Protestant, privately confusing Efrain Rios Montt (Guatamala) - Church of the World (Pentecostal) Miklos Horthy (Hungary) - Calvinism Daniel rap Moi (Kenya) - Just lists him as “Christian” Vidkun Quisling (Norway) - Raised Lutheran, professed a personal creation (“Universism”) as an adult Josef Pilsudski (Poland) - Born Catholic, went Lutheran, went back to Catholic Chiang Kai-shek (China) - Methodist Syngman Rhee (South Korea) - Methodist Yoweri Museveni (Uganda) - Anglican ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/29 "2013-03-16T13:50:20Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > What was he then? He was a Deist. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/30 "2013-03-16T13:53:21Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > What was he then? [Unclear](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_religion) His wife and kids were Protestant and he was raised in a Protestant family, but he never personally joined a church or expressed specifically Christian personal viewpoints (he did believe in god). To the extent he was Protestant is was probably more a cultural default than a personal belief. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/31 "2013-03-16T13:58:00Z")
[Kim Ilsung](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_il_sung) was supposedly raised Presbyterian. [Syngman Rhee](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syngman_Rhee) was Methodist. [Here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictator#List_of_dictators_in_modern_times) is Wiki’s _List of dictators in modern times_. There may be a few there who belonged to one of the Orthodox churches, not Protestant and not Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/32 "2013-03-16T14:08:28Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > What was he then? He came from a Protestant/Baptist background but was apparently never doctrinally adherent. He did assert vaguely Christian religiosity, and was presumably as devout as many identified with specific churches. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/33 "2013-03-16T14:23:45Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Or when he suspended habeus corpus and ignored the Supreme Court. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: The [Constitution, Article I, s. 9](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_Clause#Section_9:_Limits_on_Congress), specifically provides that habeas corpus can be suspended “… when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.” However, the Constitution doesn’t specify whether the President or the Congress has the authority to suspend it. Lincoln assumed he had the power; when that was questioned, Congress retroactively ratified the suspension by statute. The Supreme Court later held that the suspension by Congress was constitutional, without dealing with whether the President could also do it. See: [_Ex parte Milligan_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_Milligan). So, it is clear that the Constitution authorises the suspension; it is not clear if the President can do it, since the issue had not arisen before; in Lincoln’s case, Congress later ratified his suspension. Doesn’t sound like the actions of an unconstitutional dictator to me. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/34 "2013-03-16T14:28:55Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > He was a Deist. That’s an interpretation, at best. He certainly never claimed it. You could just as well call him a Calvinist. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/35 "2013-03-16T14:33:07Z")
Methodism seems to be an incubator for dictators. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/36 "2013-03-16T14:40:29Z")
I noted the same as **An Gadai**. I wonder what the Wesley brothers would think about that. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/37 "2013-03-16T15:36:46Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Methodism seems to be an incubator for dictators. 🙂 Perhaps interestingly, both Hillary Clinton and George W. Bush are Methodists. > [@Colibri](#): > > That doesn’t make him a dictator. Lincoln was neither an absolute ruler, nor did he come to power through non-constitutional means. Your suggestion is an absurd stretch. You know who else came to power by constitutional means, don’t you? And also ruled until his death? :eek: 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/38 "2013-03-16T15:39:56Z")
Autocratic rulers are dictators. So Lincoln wasn’t, Henry VIII was. Though I don’t know whether Henry was a big P Protestant or not. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/39 "2013-03-16T15:40:14Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Methodism seems to be an incubator for dictators. 🙂 There’s something about that Methodist + East Asian combo, at least! ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073/40 "2013-03-16T15:50:16Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The [Constitution, Article I, s. 9](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_Clause#Section_9:_Limits_on_Congress), specifically provides that habeas corpus can be suspended “… when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.” > > However, the Constitution doesn’t specify whether the President or the Congress has the authority to suspend it. Lincoln assumed he had the power; when that was questioned, Congress retroactively ratified the suspension by statute. The Supreme Court later held that the suspension by Congress was constitutional, without dealing with whether the President could also do it. See: [_Ex parte Milligan_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_Milligan). > > So, it is clear that the Constitution authorises the suspension; it is not clear if the President can do it, since the issue had not arisen before; in Lincoln’s case, Congress later ratified his suspension. Doesn’t sound like the actions of an unconstitutional dictator to me. Thank you for this. I’ve seen “Lincoln suspended habeas corpus” so many times used for and against Bush and Obama, it’s nice to hear some proper history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-protestant-dictator/653073.md?page=3)