# Has this message board turned any religious believers, or agnostics, into atheists? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 27, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487 "2010-04-27T03:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/41 "2010-04-27T20:20:13Z")
I’ve been an atheist most of my life, but I never really thought about it much. I went to what I call an “agnostic”\* phase for a year or two just when I started reading this board. The SDMB and lots of other books and sites (youtube too, strangely) did help me think about the issue a bit clearer and I’ve been a pretty convinced atheist ever since. I’d probably have got there sooner or later - agnosticism doesn’t suit me much, even though technically I am agnostic\*\* - and the thought of joining a religion is repulsive to me personally. - as in the 50/50, I just don’t know and neither do you agnostic. \*\* as in, I can’t be 100% certain, but for all practical purposes, the evidence for gods is just not there and until some good evidence shows up, I’ll make the _reasonable and rational_ assumption that gods don’t exist instead of giving gods special powers of exemption from rationality. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/42 "2010-04-27T20:25:24Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > Diogenes’ posts have also reinforced my interest in studying the Bible as a (very interesting) work of man – no more, no less. I usually disagree with **Dio** even when I agree with him, but I always sit up and pay attention when he’s posting about the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/43 "2010-04-27T20:38:24Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > **Dio** , I agree with almost everything you’ve said in this post, but I am pretty sure that some posters here do use the FSM with the intent to ridicule. Not you, but some others. > > Some of your posts on bible topics have led me into some interesting studies of my own, so thanks for that. I’d argue that the only reason the FSM/IPU/Teapot argument is persuasive - at least to agnostics - is that it’s directly equating (some) gods (especially the ones that are attractive to agnostics) to ridiculous things - that is, things that appear to be unbelievable - while still being a completely logical argument. IMHO, there really isn’t a polite way to state it. Just ways that are “formally” polite. For the record, in chronological order: Teapot: [Russell's teapot - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot) IPU: [Invisible Pink Unicorn - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn) FSM: [Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/44 "2010-04-27T20:54:23Z")
[Moderator Note]take the FSM/IPU/Teapot hijack to another thread.[/Moderator Note] ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/45 "2010-04-27T21:58:10Z")
Nope, my beliefs haven’t been tempered by the boards. I’ve spent most of my life as someone with less than rock solid faith, and that hasn’t changed. I pray and hope that someone’s listening, and that’s about it. The SD has opened my eyes in regards to a sort of atheist I’ve never in my life encountered in real life, though: the proselytizing atheist. They won’t be happy until they’ve convinced everyone to give up their silly beliefs…not that they’ve tended to post here very long before flaming out, mind you. Religion is definitely not a widely discussed topic in these parts - you certainly don’t talk about it with coworkers, for example - nor is the lack there of. Until I joined this board I had no idea that there were people who are as dedicated to trying to eradicate beliefs as Christian fundamentalists are to spreading them. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/46 "2010-04-27T22:31:17Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > This board didn’t “turn” me into an atheist but I think it’s been part of a transformation I’ve undergone in the past 10 years. The internet played a big part of it. The sacred texts online site, all the great history and religion sites you can peruse. I always had questions about Christianity that I could never find answers for, and before I thought it was just one of God’s mysteries. After I learned more I realized there were no answers because one answer would contradict another. It didn’t make sense because it didn’t make sense, not because I haven’t ever found the right explanations. This. I was a liberal Catholic and I started having more and more doubts. My worldview made sense in a way, if taken as a whole package, but then it relied on a large dose of blind faith, and there were still conflicting data-points. Eventually those data points won me over. I still miss my faith, but I just can’t believe anymore. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/47 "2010-04-27T23:57:34Z")
I am someone whose religious views were changed by the Dope. And the person probably most responsible? Are you sitting down? Der Trihs. When I first read his rantings I completely blew him off. But after a while I realized I was reading the attitude and not the content. I initially viewed him as just the wingnut version of atheism and pretty much ignored what he said because of how much vitriol it contained. But I guess some of it clicked. At least the parts about religion having as much foundation as palm reading or fortune telling. Not to disparage any theists. It was just a personal realization that the thought of a higher being just never clicked with me. If someone else feels a higher calling I think that is terrific. I just never did but it wasn’t until I started reading the Dope that I realized what resonated with me was a lack of a god. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/48 "2010-04-28T12:24:49Z")
I was already like this when I got here, so no, no change in belief system for me! ---
**Author:** ![A.Selene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ec8ea/32.png) [@A.Selene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Selene)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/49 "2010-04-28T19:14:46Z")
Years ago I was a religious believer. I’ve only been a “guest” here for about a year, but have been reading the Dope on and off for five years. While this board wasn’t the biggest influence while I was losing what faith I had and turning to atheism, it was a factor. So thanks everyone. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/50 "2010-04-29T13:52:30Z")
No. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/51 "2010-04-29T15:51:43Z")
I think I could say the SDMB was the biggest factor in me going from naive (in retrospect), traditional, Christian high schooler to non-believing, skeptical 20-something. I never posted, but I read many religious debates here featuring **Diogenes** , **SentientMeat** , **Liberal** , **The Vorlan Ambassador’s Aide** (was that his name?), **Polycarp** , and many others. Over the course of a few years, I’d say I went from unthinking Protestant believer to liberal Christian to to _very_ liberal Christian to non-believer. Put another way, the books I read went from _The Case for Christ_ by Lee Strobel to _The God We Never Knew_ by Marcus Borg to _Why Christianity Must Change or Die_ by John Shelby Spong to _The God Delusion_ by Richard Dawkins. Of course, I didn’t rely solely on information and opinions from Great Debates, but they usually provided a good jumping off point from which I could explore further. Over time I came to realize that the non-religious arguments were stronger than the religious arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/52 "2010-04-29T15:56:57Z")
**Trom** , it may be too late for you, but from a scholarly Christian perspective you might want to balance the Borg and Spong with some N.T. Wright or Rowan Williams. Borg is interesting, but frankly it’s hard for me to understand how anyone takes Spong seriously. Obviously people do, though. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/53 "2010-04-29T16:08:40Z")
The OP seems to be saying, “people weren’t nice and respectful to my faith, so I feel comfortable ignoring their arguments.” Weaksauce, imo. For myself, during the time I’ve been posting on the SDMB, I went from being a liberal Christian with lingering doubts about Jesus’ divinity to rather solid atheism, and the more rigorous debates on the Board certainly had something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/54 "2010-04-29T16:32:09Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > The OP seems to be saying, “people weren’t nice and respectful to my faith, so I feel comfortable ignoring their arguments.” Weaksauce, imo. I don’t see that from the OP at all. I \*do \*see that in at least one reply that I can recall. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/55 "2010-04-29T16:57:10Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > **Trom** , it may be too late for you, but from a scholarly Christian perspective you might want to balance the Borg and Spong with some N.T. Wright or Rowan Williams. > > Borg is interesting, but frankly it’s hard for me to understand how anyone takes Spong seriously. Obviously people do, though. I’ve read _The Meaning of Jesus_ which is co-authored by Borg and Wright. In each chapter a topic is presented (eg: “Jesus physical rose from the dead.”), and they take turns presenting their views. It was awhile ago, but I remember finding most of Borg’s ideas more palatable than Wright’s more traditional view. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/56 "2010-04-29T17:28:54Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > “I have yet to see anyone argue against religion who doesn’t do so in a manner insulting to religious people” > > This is far more damaging to your position than you could know, **BigT**. Interesting that you presume that he’s debating a position rather than simply sharing his personal experience. BTW, I found the tone in that **first** sentence hostile and argumentative. By the time we get to your throwing in the FSM, that ship had long since sailed. I happen to agree with **BigT** , because the debates I’ve seen are just like this. My life experiences have been different from yours, unsurprisingly; if you jump straight to asserting that my personal experiences are invalid, I’m going to figure that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about (you’re not in my head, for one, and my experiences are valid whether you wish to acknowledge that or not), and disengage. I’m not a fan of wasting my time. There is a way to discuss these things without being disrespectful to the person you’re debating with, but that wasn’t it; and that debating style is by far the most common in my experience. On the other hand, **Olives** just rocks my socks, because this is very wise: > [@](#): > > That said, I am not, by a long shot, anti-theist. I think anti-theism is irrational because it holds religious institutions to a higher standard than any other institution, despite the fact that corruption is a widespread part of human nature. And it holds religious people to a higher standard than any other person, because every person on this planet holds irrational beliefs and the thing that unifies us all is that we don’t want to admit it. Most of the very vocal people on this board seem to be anti-theists, and very nasty. To the OP, my spirituality has become stronger and more nuanced over the years. This doesn’t really have any direct correlation to the boards, though, since I don’t engage in that kind of debate here for the abovementioned reasons. (I discuss it in Real Life, though, because people are far less inclined to be nasty and disrespectful if they’re sitting face-to-face with you.) What I do find interesting is that most of the posts so far have presumed a dichotomy that one is either an atheist or a Christian (for example, atheists who said that reading the bible convinced them that atheism was the correct way to go). This is a false dichotomy of course; I am neither atheist nor Christian. I’m curious as to what might have happened if atheists had done deeper research and read about more than one religion before making up their minds. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/57 "2010-04-29T18:47:57Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > My life experiences have been different from yours, unsurprisingly; if you jump straight to asserting that my personal experiences are invalid, I’m going to figure that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about (you’re not in my head, for one, and my experiences are valid whether you wish to acknowledge that or not), and disengage. I have to say, I’m a bit surprised that you’re a member of \*this \*board and think that _anyone’s_ “personal experiences” are valid. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/58 "2010-04-29T19:17:49Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I don’t see that from the OP at all. I \*do \*see that in at least one reply that I can recall. Sorry, you’re right. The OP is not saying that, mere a responder or two did. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/59 "2010-04-29T22:49:42Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I have to say, I’m a bit surprised that you’re a member of \*this \*board and think that _anyone’s_ “personal experiences” are valid. I have no idea what you mean by that. Having that level of respect for the people you interact with is part and parcel of being a grown-up. I’m not sure why you’d think that should be different on a message board. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487/60 "2010-04-30T00:27:17Z")
It didn’t have any impact on my movement from pantheism to atheism, that happened entirely separately. It has however been a very affirming place for a secular atheist, and I find a lot of the religious debates to be interesting (until they get tortuously technical, bogged down in scriptural references, turn into quote trading matches or simply faeces flinging spectacles - and they always reach one of those outcomes eventually). So whilst it didn’t make actually change my beliefs, it gave me a nice soft place to land after that had happened. Coincidentally I’ve just finished watching an[extremely good youtube series](http://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3#grid/user/A0C3C1D163BE880A) by a former Christian who is now an atheist describing his process of moving from one position to another. I’d really recommend it as the author is extremely articulate, well reasoned and thoughtful in his presentation of the subject matter and his own experiences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-this-message-board-turned-any-religious-believers-or-agnostics-into-atheists/537487.md?page=4)