# Has Trump made or spent $ on his election? \[+ Trump 2016 = Springtime Hitler?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 13, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464 "2016-10-13T21:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/21 "2016-10-14T17:52:46Z")
The FOX of old would probably have given him his own show after the election. Would the FOX of today? ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/22 "2016-10-14T18:20:19Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Chris Sacca: [x.com](https://twitter.com/sacca/status/786700263663005696) Cool. I went to law school with Chris, but I wasn’t aware that he had achieved such notoriety. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/23 "2016-10-14T19:08:48Z")
Trump has lately been quoting the figure $100mil (gross) as what he’ll spend of his on money on his campaign. He doesn’t even claim to have spent all of it yet though, and might not. But as was mentioned he forgave loans to the campaign \>$50mil. Some campaign spending has been for services from Trump owned entities, but those entities in general have expenses in providing those services, eg. much of $5.6mil paid for use of a plane presumably goes to fuel, salaries, actual depreciation of the plane etc. and even the profit portion might be earned selling the services to somebody else. Unless that is the rates charged for the services were grossly inflated, but that’s a separate fact not given by the various articles claiming Trump isn’t ‘really’ spending that money because some of the services are provided by Trump related entities. Again I think the main variable in the $100mil is whether Trump actually spends it, not the related entities issue; the $50mil+ seems fairly solid at this point. Thus Trump’s spending is in the general ballpark of Perot’s in 1992 (said to have spent ~$64mil from a fortune of ~$3bil, both in then-dollars). If Trump is really worth $2-$4bil (Forbes and Economist estimates) and spends $50-$100mil, he’s being similarly to perhaps more aggressive. He’s being less aggressive according to his own claim of his net worth, but few believe that claim. Meg Whitman is said to have spent $175mil out of around $2bil in losing the CA’s governor’s race, but there’s yet to be one of these people who really risk spending themselves into poverty. Even though Trump isn’t as rich as he says, and anyone is free to speculate the real number is lower than even Forbes/Economist found, $50-$100mil still isn’t likely to be a life changing amount of money for him. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/24 "2016-10-14T19:56:00Z")
Neither Meg nor Ross’s empires were built on mountains of debt. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/25 "2016-10-14T22:22:06Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Neither Meg nor Ross’s empires were built on mountains of debt. ‘Net worth’ means assets minus liabilities including debt. None of those estimates is a gross asset number from which debt still needs to be subtracted. So the spending relative to net worth is apples to apples across the three, with caveat of more controversy what Trump’s NW actually is. Separately Trump’s NW would be more volatile than the other two if he has more debt relative to _gross_ assets. But it’s not clear Trump is very leveraged. The NYT article on Trump’s debt found a not necessarily exclusive $650mil for ‘companies he owns’, ‘twice the amount that can be gleaned from public filings he made as part of his bid for the WH’. However that’s not very leveraged if $650mil in debt v $2.65bil in assets=$2bil NW as per Forbes and less if $4bil as per Economist. Although again it can’t be proved the NW isn’t less, or the debt more. But moreover debt of ‘companies he owns’ doesn’t necessarily have recourse to him. That’s the criticism of his walking away from bankruptcies in Trump entities. But it’s a less effectively leveraged position than if he was (legally) personally responsible for that debt. Trump’s financial near death experience in the 90’s was exacerbated by loans he personally gteed to get lower rates. Since then he has apparently be loath to do that, and has shifted his whole business model toward making licensing and TV money off being a ‘famous real estate developer’ rather than actually being one so much. Three of the factors mentioned above can be used to make political hay: Trump walked away from non-recourse loans (his failed casino’s etc); Trump isn’t really a real estate mogul in recent years as much as playing one on TV and media to make licensing revenue; Trump is a pedal to the metal real estate guy leveraged up the wazoo so $100mil spending of liquid assets on the campaign really _could_ put him up a creek. But there’s some contradiction between the first two and the third, and the third IMO is dubious based on the known evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/26 "2016-10-14T22:35:59Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I think the Trump “brand” has been permanently tarnished. He used to try to appeal to the newly wealthy - snob appeal. He tried to position the Trump brand as high class, only the best… “trust me”. I agree with this. Perhaps he thought that running would burnish his brand value but it’s had quite the opposite effect. Whatever supporters he has don’t seem to be the sort capable of renting rooms in his hotels or buying apartments in his buildings. We might see these properties rebranded to remove his name. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/27 "2016-10-14T23:39:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The FOX of old would probably have given him his own show after the election. Would the FOX of today? The FOX of today is so stupid, they don’t realize that they’re propping up their future competition. Trump News Network is going to take all of the crazies away from FOX. And that’s about 90% of their demographic. FOX is going to have to descend even more into crazy conspiracy-town if they want to maintain viewer share. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/28 "2016-10-15T01:48:40Z")
One thing I’ve heard is that Trump didn’t take the usual path of giving his money to his campaign fund. Instead he loaned his money to the campaign. This means that when the campaign is closed, any unspent money in the campaign fund (and there’s apparently a lot of unspent money) can be used to pay off debts - like the loan from Trump. So a lot of the money that people donated to the Trump Campaign to get him elected President is going to end up as Trump’s personal assets. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/29 "2016-10-15T16:40:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > One thing I’ve heard is that Trump didn’t take the usual path of giving his money to his campaign fund. Instead he loaned his money to the campaign. > > This means that when the campaign is closed, any unspent money in the campaign fund (and there’s apparently a lot of unspent money) can be used to pay off debts - like the loan from Trump. So a lot of the money that people donated to the Trump Campaign to get him elected President is going to end up as Trump’s personal assets. Trump’s FEC filings showed all loans to his campaign up to at least July as forgiven, which is the $52mil floor number consisting of both forgiven loans and direct contributions from him. Trump’s more recent statements that he will spend $100mil is subject to verification he actually does. > **[Forgiving Campaign Loans, Trump Fulfills His Pledge to Self-Fund Primary](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/forgiving-campaign-loans-trump-fulfills-his-pledge-self-fund-primary-n613536)** > > Trump finalized his self-funding, which he has touted since he began running for president, in a new filing with the Federal Election Commission. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/30 "2016-10-15T17:54:39Z")
In the run-up to the first debate, I was doing a little trolling of Trump and the RNC, which was fun but resulted in me being added to their e-mail list for a few days ( I have long since successfully unsubscribed.) But the running theme in these e-mails was the theme that Donald J. Trump would PERSONALLY match every donation that I made. With great emphasis on “personally”. I hope someone holds his feet to the fire to make sure he really came through on that because I find it hard to believe coming from Mr. Other People’s Money. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/31 "2016-10-16T05:40:28Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yes, he had to forgive them in July. Thus transforming them into a $52 million ‘bad debt’, which he can write off from his taxes. And he’s pretty good at not paying taxes. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/32 "2016-10-16T06:43:41Z")
See "Producers (1967) and remake (2005). Broadway producers hit upon the idea of making a sure-fire disaster because nobody tries to trace the money with a flop - they only come looking with hits. So “Flop = free money” and “Hit = having to repay investors”. Hence the “guaranteed flop” entitled “Springtime for Hitler”. Back when the Trump campaign was announced, I saw a note that the Candidate had “LOANED” the Campaign x million. Of course, I expect the Party to be renting space in Trump Tower, and is picking up the tab for all planes, trains, and automobiles (incl. buses) with the TRUMP name on them. Once the buffoon loses, all will be forgotten/forgiven. And Donald will have another Tax Loss to write off more income (that 990-some MILLION of 1995 is probably wearing off, and he needs another massive loss to carry him for another 20 years. In the movie, _Springtime for Hitler_ turned out to be a hit and the Producers were screwed. What if _Trump 2016_ actually works? I am at a loss for “Why on Earth did this fool actually run for President”. This is my best guess at this point. Saw a note that the Old Post Office Building (now a super-luxury hotel) is running a huge dificit since the name TRUMP is now splattered on it and nobody paying $1200 and up/night want to explain why they have the name TRUMP on their hotel key. You think maybe this loss will somehow show up on his personal taxes? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/33 "2016-10-16T06:57:58Z")
The analogy is not new, even I worked it a little on here 6 months ago. But actually I was wrong; beyond the liberal chest beating and that moral indignation facinating things are happening in US politics - like with, say, healthcare people have been taken for a ride for decades on bogus pretexts (‘socialised medicine is unamerican’) about how wonderful the USA system of government is when, in reality, it’s close to junk. Looking at it from distance, you wouldn’t sell it to your neighbour. So Trump, like Sanders, is symptom of discontent at lack of representation - of the political class for decades feeding at the trough of capitalist self-interest at enormous cost to the people they are allegedly elected, and paid, to represent. Really not The Producers, for the discontents the issue is more the [oligarchy](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746) of the 1%: all that liberal chest-beating is so much … self-regard. ---
**Author:** ![SantaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@SantaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SantaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/34 "2016-10-16T08:45:04Z")
[two](http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/videos/a42537/jimmy-kimmel-trump-producers-parody/) parodies (I can only find the one by the actors that did "The Producers) have been made and a Google search shows a few articles asking the same question ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/35 "2016-10-16T16:03:49Z")
I see it more like somebody saw Monty Python’s “Election Night Special” sketch, with the Silly Party sweeping into power, and thought it was both real and a great idea. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/36 "2016-10-16T16:22:26Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Thus transforming them into a $52 million ‘bad debt’, which he can write off from his taxes. And he’s pretty good at not paying taxes. Forgiven loans to campaigns are treated as contributions for tax purposes, not deductible. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/37 "2016-10-16T16:28:47Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Forgiven loans to campaigns are treated as contributions for tax purposes, not deductible. “I, Donald J. Trump, calls for an _immediate_ suspension of IRS activities until our elected officials can figure out what the _hell_ is going on.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/38 "2016-10-18T18:59:40Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Trump’s only power is in his role as the GOP nominee. Which ends around 11:00pm EST, 11.8.2016. > > If he wins, we got problems. > > If he loses, then the following happens: > > 1. He loses his secret service detail. _Immediately_. As in, they will go home that night. (I bet this unhinges him.) > 2. He loses his relationship with the GOP. The people who remain _won_ their elections. They won’t care about losers. Some will, of course, but in a few days, they’ll begin to understand the paradigm has changed _again_. > 3. He is facing not one, not two, not three, but multiple criminal investigations involving multiple agencies in multiple levels of government in multiple states. #TrumpRICO > 4. 3,500 lawsuits with more being added daily > 5. Trump Uni racketeering case: 11.28.16 > 6. Trump Rape case initial court dates: December 2016 > 7. Some of these allegations, especially the 2013 incident in Washington, are still within statute of limitations. Expect criminal investigations to be opened by ambitious DA’s in Democratic areas. > 8. Somebody is pissed he broke the Cuban embargo. Lot’s of somebodies. Expect more to come on that as well. > 9. The incoming administration is one whom he has personally and viciously attacked. They will have no reason or desire to call off any hounds. (You can say the same thing about the FBI. They, too, will be monitoring developments closely. 😉 ) > 10. The revenues to his company’s have dropped precipitiously. > 11. Trump has an empire of debt. Debt must be serviced (i.e., paid). That requires cash. See point 10. > 12. Much of Trump’s debt is in foreign banks. Bankruptcy, again, is inevitable. More exposure. > 13. This campaign has cost him $52 million. He _might_ recoup some of that with the expenses paid to his properties - even with inflated prices, he might be able to pocket all of $2 million once the cash winds its way into his pockets. (I don’t know about the books, but he will be paid his base royalty on them. The surcharges - some were earmarked to his campaign, right?) > 14. He might actually be dumb enough to sue the NY Times, which opens up a whole hell of a lot of shit that will be exposed in discovery. Melania might be dumb enough to sue People magazine, which brings up questions about _her_ legality. > 15. His future brand is shot. No reasonable, respectable company will do business with him, personally, again. They will have trouble selling ad space on Trump TV to any but the typical cut-rate buyers on high-numbered cable channels - Juice Plus, infomercials, etc. > 16. To start a TV network, a new political party around this man, requires billionaires to completely ignore everything he has done and everything that will happen because of things he’s done and pour hundreds-of-millions, billions, into building up the Donald J. Trump brand and persona. > > Were the man 30, I could actually see some idiot billionaire or three take a flyer at this. But he is _seventy_, with a remaining lifespan measured in years, not decades. What is the ROI projections on Trump TV? Does it make sense to spend this money, effort on a man with not-a-small likelihood of being dead within 5 years? (If they do Trump TV with a “sidekick” like Joel Osteen, priming Osteen to take Trump’s place… that might be appealing to somebody worried about lifespans. But, still, it’s a TV network that requires massive amounts of capital investments and will have a hard time attracting women viewers and advertisers who don’t want to be associated with Trump’s toxic brand.) > > Now, the political “movement” that he started - that likely will have ripple effects over the years. But Donald J. Trump himself? Naw. He’s a walking dead man and, what’s more, he knows it - it’s why he’s going scorched Earth. > > Be assured that the forces that want him gone already greatly outweigh the forces that want him in the public limelight, and after November 8th, he loses what official position he had to command this limelight. > > In short, he goes back to being Donald J. Trump, a man with no power and no voice except what we want to give him. Which, to 80+% of America, is none. > > So, to answer the question, bankruptcy looms in his future, meaning that he has spent _everything_ on this campaign and will have nothing to show for it. > > Other opinions about this include: > > Mark Cuban: [http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000559204](http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000559204) > > Chris Sacca: [x.com](https://twitter.com/sacca/status/786700263663005696) I wish prosecutions of Trump were viable, but I just don’t see it happening. As much as he deserves a prison jumpsuit (Orange is the New Orange), the last thing Clinton needs after she takes office is for Trump’s base to think she’s prosecuting him as political payback (which they’ll believe no matter what state or district puts him on trial.) I can see her encouraging various jurisdictions to withhold charges, to whatever extent she has influence. For the same reason MacArthur spared Hirohito, post-election peace depends on letting this shitbag skate. That won’t stop the civil lawsuits, though. And I predict Trump TV will be a major bust. Glen Beck had a pretty big following when he left Fox but his “network” is circling the drain. Being the presidential choice for millions of people doesn’t necessarily make you their news broadcaster choice. Just ask Al Gore. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/39 "2016-10-18T23:05:48Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Forgiven loans to campaigns are treated as contributions for tax purposes, not deductible. And a charitable Foundation can’t make donations in lieu of fines you would have to pay after being caught violating the law. Yet somehow the Trump Foundation did, and the IRS allowed it. Apparently, when you’re rich, “You can do anything”. To quote Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464/40 "2016-10-19T14:36:22Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > And a charitable Foundation can’t make donations in lieu of fines you would have to pay after being caught violating the law. Yet somehow the Trump Foundation did, and the IRS allowed it. > > Apparently, when you’re rich, “You can do anything”. To quote Donald Trump. I still think it’s useful info to point out that you’re not allowed to deduct campaign contributions, forgiven loans are contributions, and there’s case law saying so where people tried; the previous poster didn’t seem aware of that as I read the post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-trump-made-or-spent-on-his-election-trump-2016-springtime-hitler/768464.md?page=3)