# Has VW's reliability improved? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 10, 2009, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621 "2009-04-10T08:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/41 "2009-04-29T16:42:59Z")
Another thing to consider with the Mazda3 (I have a 2008 5-door): If you like putting the 3 through its paces, it wears out tires pretty quickly. I’m a fairly aggressive driver (on the back roads, not in regular traffic) and I had to replace the OEM Goodyear Eagles at 22K. If you’re just commuting and don’t enjoy long weekend drives on curvy roads, I’m sure you’d get quite a few more miles out of the stock tires, though. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/42 "2009-04-29T16:55:40Z")
We have an '01 Passat wagon and the oil sludge issue popped up for us, too. The dealer attempted to make us pay for the repair until we found the news release saying the warranty had been extended due to the oil sludge problems. Then, after that attempt to gouge us failed, the dealer tried to refuse repairs because we were missing an oil change receipt (had to have a receipt; they wouldn’t fulfill warranty if you changed your own oil). Another quick search on the Internet produced an interview with a vice-president of VW saying that, absent a history of neglect, VW owners could miss an oil change and still get the warranty work done. So, I e-mailed that off to them. (In the meantime, I also stumbled across numerous complaints from other VW owners from across the U.S. who were refused warranty work because they couldn’t produce oil change receipts or paperwork.) The dealer then tried insisting that we get routine maintenance work done to the tune of $500 before they fixed the engine. We refused, and they grudgingly fixed the engine. I then reported them to the BBB and the state attorney general. I can’t see buying a VW again. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/43 "2009-04-29T18:24:44Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > I can’t see buying a VW again. I’d certainly encourage you to get something else, and could probably get you a discount on it. I’m only saying that to show you that I have no loyalty to VW. On the other hand, it sounds like VW (the corporation) did okay by you, and that the problem was really the dealer trying to screw you over. My particular company (and indeed, all auto manfucturers) has the same issues with dealer asshattery unfortunately, and so I’ve come to separate dealers from manufacturers in my mind. I know that the general public doesn’t, though. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/44 "2009-04-29T19:02:33Z")
Unfortunately, it wasn’t just one dealer, **Balthisar** ; it was a whole host of dealers across the nation–if the truth can be judged by the numerous (and similar) on-line complaints I read while researching the fiasco as it was going on. In addition, the person who instructed the dealer to charge us the $600 for the unrelated tune-up work (reading back through the e-mails, it looks like I was off by a $100 or so) was the field manager for VW in our area: > [@Field Manager e-mail](#): > > As for the Passat engine concern… if the vehicle requires any > maintenance items such as 90K, belts, etc make sure the customer takes > care of those items through you. Providing they agree to make sure the > vehicle is up-to-date with maintenance history you can take care of the > engine repair. The underhanded business practices and attempted end-run around the warranty went further up the chain than the dealership, which would have soured me to the brand even if I hadn’t already read about the experiences others had in trying to fix the same problem. Plus, if our model is any judge of VW design intentions, they don’t want the customer doing anything simple like changing bulbs in headlights. It was simply bad design and poor customer service. On the other hand, I agree with you about bad dealers fouling the air for their brand. I wouldn’t trust one of our local Honda dealerships for anything other than inflating a tire, but I don’t hold that against Honda. Of course, I’ve never had anywhere near the trouble with Hondas or Acuras that I had with just one VW. (Which isn’t to say that problems don’t exist for other people; I’ve just been lucky enough to not have them.) But if Honda pulled the same stunt with me that VW tried, I’d also have to reconsider buying any of their cars. Pretty soon I’ll have no choice but to ride to work on an old BMX dirt bike. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/45 "2009-04-29T19:20:20Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > Be advised that if it matters to you, Mazdaspeed vehicles have historically had phenomenally bad gas mileage. Phonomenally is a strong word. I get about 26 MPG on my 2008 Mazdaspeed3, I don’t push mine too hard and drive mostly rural roads. ---
**Author:** ![jmwatts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jmwatts/32/17348_2.png) [@jmwatts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmwatts)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/46 "2009-04-30T04:48:15Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > I’m glad you’re doing that well, but I’m sure you’d be getting closer to 27-28 with the standard version of the car and your driving. > From [fueleconomy.gov](http://fueleconomy.gov) > Conventional Mazda 3 Auto: > 24 City / 32 Hw > Mazdaspeed 3: > 17 City / 26 Hwy > > Mazdaspeed vehicles are NICE, but I’m puzzled by how bad the mileage is. I think if you looked a little closer it would all make sense to you. Conventional Mazda 3 Auto: 148 HP Mazdaspeed 3 263 HP The extra 100-odd horsepower costs some gas. ---
**Author:** ![Chew\_Barker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@Chew\_Barker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chew_Barker)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/47 "2009-04-30T07:12:59Z")
I’m amazed at the cultural differences shown here. In my experience in the UK Volkswagen have a massive reputation, so much so that buying one from a dealer or second hand private, you would likely pay up to 50% more for a VW than a similar vehicle. For instance the Skoda Fabia, Seat Ibzia and the VW Polo are all VW owned and are all built around the same spec sheet, sharing similar parts, yet the Polo regularly fetchs more cash. I own a 1967 VW T2 Split Screen Bus, 1979 VW T2 Bay Window Camper, and a 2000 Skoda Fabia. Never had a problem with any of them …apart from rust 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/48 "2009-04-30T08:58:03Z")
We never had the oil sludge problem in Europe. Actually the 1.8T engine of that era was proven one of the most reliable VW engines. From what I’ve heard the problem in US was due to low quality oil and longer drain intervals. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/49 "2009-04-30T09:00:19Z")
I don’t know about 50%, but they certainly attract a premium over other similar cars in the UK. But not so much due to reliability, at least not any more. It’s more down to build quality, I think. They use better materials inside and out, the paint job is better etc. A VW just feels a cut above a Ford, Peugeot etc., when you sit in it. I’ve had and Audi (another VW brand, of course) and a couple of VW Polos, and while they were good cars I did have quite a few electrical problems with them. Immobilsers failing, remote locking etc. These things are bloody expensive to fix in VW land, let me tell you. I spent maybe £1,000 fixing stuff like that on the Audi in the time I had it (actually, I never fixed the remote locking because it was just stupidly expensive). My current Ford, four years old? Not a single problem. ---
**Author:** ![Chew\_Barker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@Chew\_Barker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chew_Barker)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/50 "2009-04-30T09:15:40Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I don’t know about 50%, but they certainly attract a premium over other similar cars in the UK. Admittedly the 50% is in the older used car market, where a 7 year old polo might cost £3000, but the others are closer to £2000. I agree with the build quality being a major factor in the reputation. This is a much greater factor when dealing with the classics, the Brazilian buses and bugs just don’t compare with German engineering. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/51 "2009-04-30T09:59:53Z")
Ah, yeah they do hold their value at the older end of the market. I suppose it’s not so much reliability as durability. They do seem to last well. Certainly, you see a lot of ten-year-old Polos and Golfs around that look in pretty good nick, compared to tired old Astras etc. of similar vintage. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/52 "2009-04-30T10:56:46Z")
> [@Chew\_Barker](#): > > I’m amazed at the cultural differences shown here. In my experience in the UK Volkswagen have a massive reputation, so much so that buying one from a dealer or second hand private, you would likely pay up to 50% more for a VW than a similar vehicle. > For instance the Skoda Fabia, Seat Ibzia and the VW Polo are all VW owned and are all built around the same spec sheet, sharing similar parts, yet the Polo regularly fetchs more cash. > SNIP Actually, the US pretty much has the same thing going on. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/53 "2009-04-30T11:56:38Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > Actually, the US pretty much has the same thing going on. Depends what you call a similar vehicle, now. I can’t find a single VW on _any_ of the top _x_ cars list during the 21st century, so if it’s true that they have a higher resale, then it would have to be based on a higher initial sale to counteract the depreciation. (Only considering the USA market here.) To be fair, I also don’t see VW on any of the worst lists, either, so I’d presume it’s about average, lacking a complete, ranked list (which I am unable to find). ---
**Author:** ![TheFifthYear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@TheFifthYear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFifthYear)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/54 "2009-04-30T13:12:34Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I can’t find a single VW on _any_ of the top _x_ cars list during the 21st century… I’m not sure what kind of lists you are specifically referring to, but the VW GTI has been a mainstay on the Car & Driver 10 Best list. [http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot\_lists/high\_performance/best\_worst\_lists/2009\_10best\_cars\_10best\_cars+page-11.html](http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/best_worst_lists/2009_10best_cars_10best_cars+page-11.html) ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/55 "2009-04-30T13:46:09Z")
> [@Chew\_Barker](#): > > I’m amazed at the cultural differences shown here. In my experience in the UK Volkswagen have a massive reputation, so much so that buying one from a dealer or second hand private, you would likely pay up to 50% more for a VW than a similar vehicle. > For instance the Skoda Fabia, Seat Ibzia and the VW Polo are all VW owned and are all built around the same spec sheet, sharing similar parts, yet the Polo regularly fetchs more cash. > > I own a 1967 VW T2 Split Screen Bus, 1979 VW T2 Bay Window Camper, and a 2000 Skoda Fabia. Never had a problem with any of them …apart from rust 🙂 It’s all relative. What do you have to compare VW to? Lucas Electrics in Jags and MGBs. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/56 "2009-04-30T14:40:58Z")
> [@MikeG](#): > > I talked my ex into buying a 2003 Passat based on “improved reliability” So far it has been a huge mistake, tons and tons of expensive repair bills for stupid crap that you would never have to worry about with a Honda or Toyota. You’ve touched on something that was a shared experience of mine as well. Even the most mundane repair was very expensive. I’ll never own another one. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/57 "2009-04-30T15:39:11Z")
> [@TheFifthYear](#): > > I’m not sure what kind of lists you are specifically referring to, but the VW GTI has been a mainstay on the Car & Driver 10 Best list. > > [http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot\_lists/high\_performance/best\_worst\_lists/2009\_10best\_cars\_10best\_cars+page-11.html](http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/best_worst_lists/2009_10best_cars_10best_cars+page-11.html) Not applicable. We’re talking about resale values, which is reflected in original price versus depreciation. I’m not saying whether cars are good or bad, but comparing resale prices of comparable vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![tboyd402](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/50afbb/32.png) [@tboyd402](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tboyd402)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/58 "2011-04-06T19:11:30Z")
Bought a CPO 06 20k mile VW passat that is a piece of crap & literally had everything replaced within 6 months - a few of them within 3 DAYS of purchasing the car. From entire AC system to radio to ignition module to steering column, instrument cluster to heater, gas tank dropped & replaced, fuel injectors I believe, coil packs, fuel lines, radiator leaking, water pump, driver door handle because it stopped working & had to crawl in passenger side!! Driver door striker as well on a different occasion, almost all suspension parts, rear struts, the list goes on and on… Those are just off the top of my head but almost every moving engine part, suspension, & electrical item was replaced, yet something else manages to fail! Though it didn’t cost anything, still a hassle and most of all an incredible frustration!! Logged complaint about two months ago with Central Region Rep Addie/Addy at VW North America. She credited ONE (1) payment of sub-$400. Logged another complain late last week after car DIED on freeway at speed in the middle of nowhere, amidst traffic - this is not the first time either!! That problem causes a hazard, risk of injury to myself, as well as someone slamming into the back of car causing accident and damaging the perfect, repaint free vehicle I unfortunately drive. Not only all those reasons, but a stalled vehicle blocks up traffic. I do not believe lemon law buybacks apply to used CPO cars, especially in AZ/NE (dual residency) - however I would like at LEAST one year of payments credited to my account for troubles/frustration/loss of work/time/effort/hassles. Addie is refusing to help anymore after the one payment two months ago, does anyone have any ideas/suggestions? Oh by the way, an associate of mine that owns commercial property here in town has allowed me to park car on his lot - with pictures of lemons posted all over it, and printed copies of this problematic summary. I have already steered away THREE people from purchasing VW’s - and going to make it my personal mission to cost them as much business as humanly possible, for the REST OF MY LIFE, as I have nothing more to lose. Best regards all. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/59 "2011-04-06T23:51:44Z")
My wife had an Audi (2002 A4 3.0, not the Turbo) Bought brand new. After 6 years of dealer maintenance, she got an oil flush which revealed that the sludge problem had plugged the oil feed enough to wear the engine to the point where it could not maintain oil pressure. Our alternatives were $7000 to install a used engine (no knowledge of prior history or reliability) or $12000-plus for a brand new engine in a car whre it had just cost us $4000-plus in the last year for front end suspension, timing belt replacement, etc. The dealer’s pat line was “we replaced the oil with what the manual said”, dealer-speak without admitting that the company did not require synthetic oil for than model until a few years after we bought it. Audi Canada refused to do anything for us, so we sold it for $3500 trade-in. Audi/VW wants to be a luxury car like BMW/Mercedes but their reliability is not up to it. Only their parts and labour rates are at BMW standards. If you want a BMW or Mercedes, buy that. If you want an ordinary car, but a Ford or Toyota. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621/60 "2011-04-07T00:31:12Z")
VW’s reliability has come back from the grave looking for smart buyers with brrraiiiiiiiiins! Ahem. If I may be excused for mixing supernatural monster metaphors, I’ve often said that the VW’s from the 90’s and 2000’s had a Jekyll and Hyde complex. Some individual cars just turned out to be basket cases without any rhyme or reason. One example of a particular model would provide years of trouble-free service whereas another identical car would just be one damn thing after another. Some people thought it was the ones made in Mexico versus the ones built in Europe, but there weren’t any models where we got cars from both sources in the US, so that doesn’t really pan out. Supposedly at around the '08 model year, their initial quality ratings at least started to get a lot better according to Consumer Reports and others. I’m not sure if that has also translated into better long-term reliability though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-vws-reliability-improved/492621.md?page=4)