# Has war increased the chances of terrorists obtaining Iraqi WMD? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2003, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807 "2003-04-24T06:49:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/1 "2003-04-24T06:49:10Z")
From the very begining skeptics have pointed out that destroying the Iraqi regime was not the same as being able to control Iraqi WMD. In fact by destroying central control of Iraqi WMD it was more likely that rogue elements including possibly terrrorists would acquire them. Unless the US had extraordinarily good intelligence on the exact location of all WMD stockpiles (highly unlikely), it was hard to see how it would be able to control Iraqi WMD quickly. The way events have played out suggests something close to a worst-case scenario for this particular issue. Clearly the US doesn’t know where the weapons are. Large parts of Iraq were under anarchy for several days with excellent opportunity for die-hard Baath elements to take off with the weapons. The borders with Iran and Syria are not secure. No Iraqi has come forward and directed American troops to WMD stockpiles. IMO the discussion about whether the US obtains “smoking gun” evidence is a secondary matter. The point is not to otbain evidence but to control all the WMD before someone takes off with them. Even if the US obtains some evidence at a later point there is no good reason to believe it will succeed in finding all the WMD lying in Iraq. The longer it takes the more likely the weapons will be missing. (Of course there is the possibility that the WMD never existed in the first place but that means the central justification for the war was bogus and US credibility will be badly damaged.) ---
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/2 "2003-04-24T17:55:48Z")
I read this as “this can still turn out bad! come on guys! our doomsday senerios of rivers of blood of thousands of iraqi babies didn’t quite play out but we still have hope for a I told you so!” ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/3 "2003-04-24T18:19:42Z")
I was hoping for an intelligent comment but thanks for the bump anyway. ---
**Author:** ![lander2k2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@lander2k2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lander2k2)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/4 "2003-04-24T18:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlofcreamcheese \* > \*\*I read this as “this can still turn out bad! come on guys! our doomsday senerios of rivers of blood of thousands of iraqi babies didn’t quite play out but we still have hope for a I told you so!” \*\* I read this as “this is still good! come on guys! this invasion makes less and less sense as time goes on but it is still possible that no-one will notice how mindless the arguments justifying all of this are!” See. Anyone can take mindless snipes at another. It takes a bit more to actually address an issue with logic and sense. If you disagree, why not address the actual issues brought up? I happen to think CyberPundit’s post makes a great point. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/5 "2003-04-24T18:50:56Z")
I found this: > [@](#): > > [U.S. finally secures uranium warehouses](http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~1319074,00.html) > Initial wave of Marines didn’t realize significance of sites > By Bob Drogin, Los Angeles Times > Three Iraqi warehouses filled with 2,500 barrels of uranium that could be enriched for nuclear weapons – plus 150 radioactive isotopes that could be used for deadly “dirty bombs” – lay unguarded for several days this week as Iraqi mobs swirled around. This is an example of the increase in the potential. > [@](#): > > The facility, known as Location C, was Iraq’s only internationally sanctioned storage site for nuclear material. Since this is an “internationally sanctioned storage site for nuclear material” the US military **should** have known it existed. I assume that they did. This doesn’t include any knowledgable Iraqi scientists that are currently unaccounted for who might be willing to strike a deal for a safe harbor. Look at the South African situation with their bioweapons program. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/6 "2003-04-24T19:06:43Z")
If that’s the same site I think it is, it was discovered a week or two ago. The UN knew about it and it had been sealed off for a long time. It’s low-grade uranium, and in fact the Marines would’ve had to break seals the UN placed on the facility (preventing the material from being used) in order to get in. By the way, low estimates are that between 1200 and 1500 Iraqi civilians were killed, and that’s surely a very low figure: it’s a weeks-old estimate, the hospitals long ago stopped counting, since they were stretched far beyond capacity, and who knows about people who may have died in more remote areas. And that doesn’t include people who died from more indirect problems, i.e. lack of food and water, the ongoing violence, those who’ll die later on from unexploded cluster bombs and other munitions… I could go on, but it’s not important. Whether you support the war or didn’t, a lot of innocent people died (and several thousand soldiers as well), and if that’s not a bad thing, I don’t know what is. Anyway, to address the topic of the thread: does the war increase the likelihood that terrorists will getting Iraqi WMD, should they exist? The CIA says yes. George Tenet testified to that effect to Congress in October and has never revised that statement. He said that Saddam Hussein was most likely to use weapons of mass destruction, or give them to terrorists, if attacked. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/7 "2003-04-24T19:47:05Z")
umm yeah but sealed off by what means that could’ve stopped a terrorist? The place was abandoned. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/8 "2003-04-24T19:49:22Z")
A terrorist would have to know it was there, I suppose. I was dealing with it from the angle that the facility housed WMD, which isn’t right. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/9 "2003-04-24T19:57:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlofcreamcheese \* > \*\*I read this as “this can still turn out bad! come on guys! our doomsday senerios of rivers of blood of thousands of iraqi babies didn’t quite play out but we still have hope for a I told you so!” \*\* Well, you’re the only one who read it that way. The OP was actually well thought out and intelligently presented. If you disagree, try making an intelligent argument rather than taking a cheap partisan shot. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/10 "2003-04-25T12:00:00Z")
Since the site is internationally sanctioned, it is a matter of record somewhere. It seems that if you are engaged in moving multi-milliion dollar contraband you could take some time to perform research Also from the same cited site: > [@](#): > > Experts say the security lapse also points to a larger concern: the immediate need to find and protect Iraq’s nuclear weapons blueprints, ballistic missile manuals, precursor chemicals for nerve gases, microbe feeder stocks for germ weapons, and countless other potentially dangerous materials that could supply terrorists or illegal weapons programs around the world. > > “There’s a tremendous danger now that materials could slip out of the country,” warned Rolfe Ekeus, who headed U.N. weapons teams in Iraq during most of the 1990s. "It’s very important that these sites be taken under control immediately.’ > > Another problem: the 3,000 or so Iraqi scientists, military officers and engineers who provided the intellectual heft, technical expertise and command structure for Saddam Hussein’s clandestine weapons production and procurement systems, according to U.N. records. **About 100 are considered crucial to understanding Iraq’s secret programs. Yet not all their identities are known.** None has yet been interrogated. > > Experts warn that Iraq’s weapons designers may flee the country and offer their services to other rogue regimes before they can be rounded up. Most of the scientists and engineers at Tuwaitha, for example, disappeared before U.S. troops arrived. ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/11 "2003-04-25T12:42:08Z")
It seems to me that the fact we already have people making it to both [Jordan](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2961521.stm) and [the US proper](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2966345.stm) with stolen art should indicate that individuals or small groups sliding through borders could potentially get stolen weapons into Syria or Iran, or that they could slip by customs directly into the country with forged passports and small amounts of biologics. This should definitely still be a serious concern on either side of the aisle. I’ve little doubt the Administration is trying to deal with this threat, but the question is how successful they will be in countering it. Much of the responsibility rests not so much on Bush himself (except perhaps he’s where the “buck stops” in that he prosecuted the war and guides general policy) as much as the multitude of individuals tasked with securing Iraqi borders. ---
**Author:** ![bagkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ab992/32.png) [@bagkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bagkitty)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/12 "2003-04-25T14:17:38Z")
What weapons of mass destruction… do you mean the ones your President used as a pretext for an illegal invasion, and now cannot find any evidence of (as is getting closer and closer to acknowledging that they weren’t there in the first place)? ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/13 "2003-04-27T16:37:23Z")
[http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20030427/ap\_on\_re\_mi\_ea/iraq\_suspected\_chemicals](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20030427/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_suspected_chemicals) From the latest story about possible discovery of chemical weapons: “Soldiers also found two mobile laboratories that contained equipment for mixing chemicals, but they appeared to have been ransacked by looters, Martin said.” This story may be the “smoking gun” that Iraq had some WMD. Unfortunately it’s also the smoking gun that the war has made it more likely that the WMD will fall into hostile hands. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/14 "2003-05-06T14:59:26Z")
[link](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35498-2003Apr24.html) Barton Gellman Friday, April 25, 2003; > [@](#): > > KUWAIT CITY, April 24 – Nearly three weeks after U.S. forces reached Iraq’s most important nuclear facility, the Bush administration has yet to begin an assessment of whether tons of radioactive material there remain intact, according to military officials here and in Washington. [link](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10888-2003May3.html) By Barton Gellman Sunday, May 4, 2003; > [@](#): > > NEAR KUT, Iraq, May 3 – A specially trained Defense Department team, dispatched after a month of official indecision to survey a major Iraqi radioactive waste repository, today found the site heavily looted and said it was impossible to tell whether nuclear materials were missing. > > The discovery at the Baghdad Nuclear Research Facility was the second since the end of the war in which a known nuclear cache was plundered extensively enough that authorities could not rule out the possibility that deadly materials had been stolen. The survey, conducted by a U.S. Special Forces detachment and eight nuclear experts from a Pentagon office called the Direct Support Team, appeared to offer fresh evidence that the war has dispersed the country’s most dangerous technologies beyond anyone’s knowledge or control. Has war increased the chances of terrorists obtaining Iraqi WMD? ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-war-increased-the-chances-of-terrorists-obtaining-iraqi-wmd/170807/15 "2003-05-06T15:24:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _ **CyberPundit** wrote:_ > This story [mobile laboratories that contained equipment for mixing chemicals] may be the “smoking gun” that Iraq had some WMD. Or maybe not. > [@](#): > > _[False Alarm?](http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/Primetime/iraq_barrels030428.html)_ > The suspect site also included missiles, warheads and vehicles that were suspected to be mobile laboratories for banned weapons, but Cutchin said the vehicles were “probably for decontamination or some kind of fuel filling, consistent with the rockets found at the site.”