# Has Zero Tolerance gone too far? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460 "2007-12-18T16:23:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/41 "2007-12-18T18:43:55Z")
790.115 Possessing or discharging weapons or firearms at a school-sponsored event or on school property prohibited; penalties; exceptions.– > [@Florida Statutes](#): > > 2)(a) A person shall not possess any firearm, electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade or box cutter, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, at a school-sponsored event or on the property of any school, school bus, or school bus stop; however, a person may carry a firearm: > 13) “Weapon” means any dirk, knife, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon except a firearm or a common pocketknife, plastic knife, or blunt-bladed table knife. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/42 "2007-12-18T18:46:32Z")
Isn’t eating lunch a “school-sanctioned activity”? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/43 "2007-12-18T18:52:01Z")
I think we’re all missing the important point here, which is: who sends their 10 year old kid to school with a steak for lunch? And where can I sign up to be their kid? 😃 (no offense, Mom) ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/44 "2007-12-18T18:52:58Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Isn’t eating lunch a “school-sanctioned activity”? [/QUOTE] Don’t be dense Lib. Is carrying a knife authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities ? Clearly it was not authorized, else she would not have been arrested. Could it have been authorized? I guess so. Learn to ignore the red herrings and focus on the issues… ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/45 "2007-12-18T18:54:04Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] 790.115 Possessing or discharging weapons or firearms at a school-sponsored event or on school property prohibited; penalties; exceptions.– [/QUOTE] Did you even read your cite? It provided exceptions to the Florida Statute you’re quoting that includes tableware. Also firearms the way you’ve parsed it, but I’m sure that can’t be right since then it would mean the kid was free to blow her steak into tatters with a shotgun too. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/46 "2007-12-18T18:55:40Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Don’t be dense Lib. Is carrying a knife authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities ? Clearly it was not authorized, else she would not have been arrested. Could it have been authorized? I guess so. Learn to ignore the red herrings and focus on the issues… [/QUOTE] Oh, be nice. You quoted the statute, which authorizes the use of knives for school sanctioned activities. I think it is a reasonable point to make that eating lunch is or ought to be one. Besides, an arrest is proof of nothing. Can’t you wait until they hang her first before condemning her? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/47 "2007-12-18T18:56:53Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] Did you even read your cite? It provided exceptions to the Florida Statute you’re quoting that includes tableware. Also firearms the way you’ve parsed it, but I’m sure that can’t be right since then it would mean the kid was free to blow her steak into tatters with a shotgun too. [/QUOTE] Don’t be dense. It said BLUNT BLADED TABLEWARE (I EVEN UNDERLINED IT FOR YOU) and the firearm exceptions I snipped concerned SCHOOL AUTHORIZED GUN SAFETY CLASSES. Yes I read the statutes. Can you read? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/48 "2007-12-18T19:00:06Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Don’t be dense. It said BLUNT BLADED TABLEWARE (I EVEN UNDERLINED IT FOR YOU) and the firearm exceptions I snipped concerned SCHOOL AUTHORIZED GUN SAFETY CLASSES. Yes I read the statutes. Can you read? [/QUOTE] I read what was provided, pardon if I didn’t see portions that were omitted sans link. It also has a provision for a common pocket knife, which if we’re going off the rather common Buck knife I have in my pocket is certainly more dangerous than the very vague “steak knife” which could very well have included the rather dull and not pointy steak knifes you get at Outback and the like. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/49 "2007-12-18T19:01:07Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Oh, be nice. You quoted the statute, which authorizes the use of knives for school sanctioned activities. I think it is a reasonable point to make that eating lunch is or ought to be one. Besides, an arrest is proof of nothing. Can’t you wait until they hang her first before condemning her? [/QUOTE] Sigh…I am not condemning her. Have you read the thread? I am only saying that the school did nothing wrong. I would hope that the courts would throw this out. At least she has the defense that she is a child and her parents put the knife in her lunch. I would hope a decent defense attorney, if it goes that far, could get her off. I know I could. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/50 "2007-12-18T19:06:03Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] I read what was provided, pardon if I didn’t see portions that were omitted sans link. It also has a provision for a common pocket knife, which if we’re going off the rather common Buck knife I have in my pocket is certainly more dangerous than the very vague “steak knife” which could very well have included the rather dull and not pointy steak knifes you get at Outback and the like. [/QUOTE] Sorry, didn’t mean to be so snarky. But you are not suggesting a steak knife is a “Common pocket-knife” are you? All I am arguing is the the school followed the law. If the law is the problem change the law. I personally don’t think a general law can be fashioned that is better than DON’T BRING KNIVES TO SCHOOL WITHOUT PERMISSION. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/51 "2007-12-18T19:08:09Z")
You seem to be saying that she did nothing wrong, and shouldn’t be punished. But if that were the case, why do you argue for her arrest? The arrest of a child? Arrest. That is too harsh a step for a small infraction, and is why we are criticizing zero-tolerance. I wonder why you do not see this. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/52 "2007-12-18T19:09:34Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Sorry, didn’t mean to be so snarky. But you are not suggesting a steak knife is a “Common pocket-knife” are you? All I am arguing is the the school followed the law. If the law is the problem change the law. I personally don’t think a general law can be fashioned that is better than DON’T BRING KNIVES TO SCHOOL WITHOUT PERMISSION. [/QUOTE] But in your response to Lib you also said that you hope that this gets thrown out in court because…she did nothing wrong? Ok then, we’re getting somewhere. This was maybe not abuse of the policy by word, but certainly by deed and Zero Tolerance might make a good campaign slogan but is certainly flawed in practice. Can we at least see eye to eye on that? I sure hope so because my steak lunch is getting cold. ETA- \*\*Moto \*\* steals my Mojo. Damn it, it took me all morning to get to the point here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/53 "2007-12-18T19:18:43Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] You seem to be saying that she did nothing wrong, and shouldn’t be punished. But if that were the case, why do you argue for her arrest? The arrest of a child? Arrest. That is too harsh a step for a small infraction, and is why we are criticizing zero-tolerance. I wonder why you do not see this. [/QUOTE] It is unfortunate that she got arrested. I wish she did not have to. I hear stories all day long about how so and so is a good boy and didn’t mean any harm. Despite the fact that he put a gun to some strangers throat and demanded all their money. It was all a misunderstanding…The fact is that we live in a violent society, I see nothing wrong with making a law against bringing a knife to school. I also wish teachers could exercise judgment in calling the cops, but I also know that because of errors in judgment laws have been created to remove that descretion. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/54 "2007-12-18T19:30:34Z")
Right. Well, nothing in our system says courts must make these decisions only, and I feel these policies have gone too far. You disagree, which is your right, and I feel we’ll just have to leave it as a disagreement. Pile up more of these stories, and the policy will change. You indicate that you won’t be disappointed when this happens. Personally, I’ll be jumping for joy. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/55 "2007-12-18T19:39:03Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Do you know how many assaults involve steak knives? [/QUOTE] No, I don’t. How many? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/56 "2007-12-18T19:41:30Z")
[QUOTE=PatriotX] No, I don’t. How many? [/QUOTE] 1. Smart Alex.. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/57 "2007-12-18T19:41:58Z")
There’s nothing wrong with a law that says bringing a weapon to school is a crime if the law exists to provide an additional charge to someone who has done something violent. For example, if the girl had rolled into school and shanked the music teacher over who got to sing Buttercup’s part in the HMS Pinafore and they charged her with “attempted murder, blah blah, and posessing a knife on school grounds” as a way to extend a harsher sentance via mutliple charges, great. I have not problem one with that concept or practice. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/58 "2007-12-18T19:49:15Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] There’s nothing wrong with a law that says bringing a weapon to school is a crime if the law exists to provide an additional charge to someone who has done something violent. For example, if the girl had rolled into school and shanked the music teacher over who got to sing Buttercup’s part in the HMS Pinafore and they charged her with “attempted murder, blah blah, and posessing a knife on school grounds” as a way to extend a harsher sentance via mutliple charges, great. I have not problem one with that concept or practice. [/QUOTE] I know this is hard for you to grasp since it was Susie Whitebread that got arrested . But don’t you think we need to keep knives and other weapons off school campuses? Sure other things can be used as weapons and if you can think of a law to prohibit rocks when used as weapons then by all means suggest it, but if not, will you at least concede that prohibiting knives from school campuses is a reasonable idea? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/59 "2007-12-18T19:50:27Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] There’s nothing wrong with a law that says bringing a weapon to school is a crime if the law exists to provide an additional charge to someone who has done something violent. For example, if the girl had rolled into school and shanked the music teacher over who got to sing Buttercup’s part in the HMS Pinafore and they charged her with “attempted murder, blah blah, and posessing a knife on school grounds” as a way to extend a harsher sentance via mutliple charges, great. I have not problem one with that concept or practice. [/QUOTE] I do. It is criminalizing something that can be handled administratively. Teachers, guidance counselors and principals have a job to do, and they shouldn’t expect cops and judges to do it for them. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460/60 "2007-12-18T19:53:25Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I do. It is criminalizing something that can be handled administratively. Teachers, guidance counselors and principals have a job to do, and they shouldn’t expect cops and judges to do it for them. [/QUOTE] You actually believe we live in Andy Griffith’s Mayberry don’t you? I though that was a stereotype, I guess not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-zero-tolerance-gone-too-far/430460.md?page=4)