# Hastur, I tried to be the voice of reason, but you are being a schmuck **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2001, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353 "2001-06-02T19:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/141 "2001-06-05T20:02:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diane \* > \*\*I thought about explaining this to him myself but then realized he would perceive it as an attack (which it wouldn’t be), but would someone please explain the “lead a horse to water” proverb to Hastur? \*\* So much for you being done with the thread, eh Bile Queen? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/142 "2001-06-05T20:06:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\* > I am on record as thinking (a) you take offense too easiliy and (b) you insult others too freely. If you read your posts in this thread to date – not my posts but your own – including taking offense that someone might apply a common proverb to you (“you can lead a horse to water . . .”) because you perceive them to be equating you to an actual horse (and leaving aside how intelligent that makes you seem) and your referring to me as “bitchy” and “with my head up my ass,” why do you imagine that reading your posts would “shatter” my image of you, as set forth in (a) and (b), above? I’m truly curious. > > But rather than answer, feel free to insult me again – and then wonder why I persist in having such a low opinion of you. Or you could roll your eyes again; that’s helpful. > > \*\* It’s an isometric excercize that does wonders. I figure with all the times I’ve rolled my eyes at you that I can now powerlift a Geo Metro with my eyes. You’ve been on the attack and setting me on the offensive since you joined this thread. Others did not, and wanted to discuss. You have not struck me as wanting to discuss and instead seem fixated on being right. You seem to be great at being critical, but poor about reading for context and content. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/143 "2001-06-05T20:19:17Z")
Diane never said she was going to leave the thread. She said she’d “keep playing cuz it’s free entertainment.” So, _do_ you know what the proverb means Hastur, or do you honestly believe he was calling you a horse? If I said, “Guys, stop beating a dead horse” would you be quick to point out that A)You aren’t being beat B)You aren’t a horse and C) You aren’t dead? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/144 "2001-06-05T20:19:22Z")
You must have missed it, so I will repost it: Since my opinion of you is that you are (a) too quick to take offense and (b) too quick to resort to insult, which of your posts in this thread do you imagine would “shatter” those assumptions? Because to the contrary, and as set forth above, there are great examples of both (a) and (b) in this very thread. Do you care to try again to actually answer this question, or would you like to merely repeat your accusations that I am overly critical and unable to read for content? (Next dictionary assignment: “Irony.”) ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/145 "2001-06-05T20:25:52Z")
**Hastur** – seriously, man. Step back and reread everything in the thread. This isn’t accomplishing anything, and you’re providing more grist to the mill of those who attack you. What’s the point of continuing this? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/146 "2001-06-05T20:26:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*You must have missed it, so I will repost it: > > Since my opinion of you is that you are (a) too quick to take offense and (b) too quick to resort to insult, which of your posts in this thread do you imagine would “shatter” those assumptions? Because to the contrary, and as set forth above, there are great examples of both (a) and (b) in this very thread. > > Do you care to try again to actually answer this question, or would you like to merely repeat your accusations that I am overly critical and unable to read for content? (Next dictionary assignment: “Irony.”) > \*\* And if you had read my posts, you would have seen where I admitted that I do take offense quickly at times. Jumping to insult? An iffy question. I’ve seen more on here being quick to insult me in this thread and others. Diane and others have jumped in on this thread, the magic thread, and others and spent their time insulting me, adding little to the OP or debate. And this is not ironic. Use the word incorrectly again and I will send you to Mrs. Tingle for a Remedial Irony class. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/147 "2001-06-05T20:26:29Z")
The sweet heavenly lord jesus knows that I don’t want to step into this thread, but I just wanted to ask Hastur: You do know there’s a difference between life being fair and YOU being fair to other people, right? Scylla very smartly said, > [@](#): > > But whether one deals fairly or not is a matter of personal choice and strength of character. > > So yes, I believe in fairness, and aspire to it, and expect it in those with whom I choose to deal. I agree that life isn’t fair, Hastur. It isn’t fair to children, adults, dogs, planeria or any other living thing. But that doesn’t mean that I can’t be fair and treat others fairly to try and remedy that. Fifteen billion wrongs don’t make a right. Just because life hasn’t been fair doesn’t mean you can’t rise above everyone else and be fair. just a thought. jarbaby ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/148 "2001-06-05T20:28:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\ ***Hastur** – seriously, man. Step back and reread everything in the thread. This isn’t accomplishing anything, and you’re providing more grist to the mill of those who attack you. What’s the point of continuing this? \*\* I’ve been wondering that myself. Scylla, Sua, Guin, Anthracite, Polycarp, and a few others have been reasonable, and there has been the opportunity for learning and discussion. From the rest, I’ve seen little but barbs, smarmy remarks, and hostility. As I did address the OP, and also other remarks, I feel I’ve kept my end to answer. But of course, there are some that will never be satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/149 "2001-06-05T20:30:35Z")
[Marcus, channeling JMS (Bab5)]I used to find it depressing that life was unfair. Then I thought: what if life were fair, and all the horrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them. Now I take delight in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe.[/Marcus] **Hastur** , I have a great respect for the passion of your convictions. I really do, especially since I can’t muster that much passion for anything. And, I hate to pile on in this thread. That said, periodically when you show up in a thread I want to grab you and shake you and say “get off my side.” This is solely because I know that whatever information you impart to the other side is going to include a fair amount of bile and hatred, which will detract from the (most often) valid points you’re trying to make. See, people don’t see the **facts** when you come at them that way. All they see is your **attitude**. (also, I keep feeling as though I should apologize, since I’m the one that called **december’s** cite into question in the original thread. I can’t quite shake the feeling that I’m the reason he continued bating Hastur in the thread in the **OP**. Silly of me, innit? :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/150 "2001-06-05T20:32:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\* > I agree that life isn’t fair, Hastur. It isn’t fair to children, adults, dogs, planeria or any other living thing. But that doesn’t mean that I can’t be fair and treat others fairly to try and remedy that. > > Fifteen billion wrongs don’t make a right. Just because life hasn’t been fair doesn’t mean you can’t rise above everyone else and be fair. > > just a thought. > > jarbaby \*\* Point taken. I do try to be equitable to all. But, I’m human and at times lose my temper and bite the bait from those who attack me. We can’t always rise up and have perfect deportment. And some people can never be equitable and always go on the attack, never considering that they get in response exactly what they put out. It does cut both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/151 "2001-06-05T20:44:14Z")
Ahhhhh! Princess Bride Ethics. Did I tell you that I have the new anniversary collector’s edition? Here, of course, I am an expert. Indeed Goldman makes the point that life is not fair. What seperates the Wesleys from the Humperdinks though is how they deal with this. Wesley, Princess Buttercup, Fazio, Indigo, all suffer from great inequalities in their lives. Do they become jaded to some degree? Of course. But like the noble rot of the grape the hardships and injustices do not make them bitter or vengeful but rather serve as the temper for their character. The injustices make the good in life that much sweeter, and each of the main characters does what all truly great people do; They take their weaknesses and disadvantages and turn them into strengths. Despite what happens, despite the unfairness of life, they deal fairly. They refuse to despair (except when they couldn’t find an Apocolypse Cape, but that was a little thin.) They remain true to themselves and others despite it all. In short, they are fair in an unfair world. Humperdink, and Count Ruben on the other hand are prone to complaining bitterly about perceived injustices (remember Humperdink bitching about how unfair it was that he had to plan a wedding, his Bride’s asassination, and a war, and didn’t have any free time?) They do not deal fairly, taking whatever advantage is available (Remember the cowardly Sicillian?) Personally, I’d strive to be a Wesley, and rathe hurtle myself off the Cliffs of Insanity than become a Humperdink (though Ruben was cool.) Part of what Goldman was saying in that book (and I’m an absolute Goldman fanatic, hence my screenname,) is that the test of life is to be a fair person in an unfair world. Some people though, are incapable of overcoming what life has thrown at them, and they crawl through the woods like pathetic RUSs. I am sorry to hear that youdon’t have the strength to maintain your good nature in the face of what life has thrown against you. Then again. Perhaps you have the strength after all. The three great truths of life. 1. Don’t get into a land war in Asia. 2. Never go up against a Sicilian when Death is on the line. 3. Don’t give Scylla an excuse to go on about Goldman. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/152 "2001-06-05T20:53:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Despite what happens, despite the unfairness of life, they deal fairly. They refuse to despair (except when they couldn’t find an Apocolypse Cape, but that was a little thin.) > \*\* It was a Holocaust Cloak. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/153 "2001-06-05T21:02:12Z")
I stand corrected. You see my point though. An unfair world forbade Buttercups’s marriage to a mere farm boy despite the fact that they had **true love**. Could anything else be unfairer? DId they complain and rail against life? Did they become bitter? No. Wesley went off to earn his fortune so they could be married. Then of course that whole Dread Pirate Robert’s thing happened, and Wesley was killed. How unfair was that? Buttercup was very sad. But, she did not despair. Hell, even in the Pit of Despair, they didn’t despair. So, Wesley or Humperdink? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/154 "2001-06-05T21:02:18Z")
and it was [Count Rugen](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0093779) Geez **Scylla** and you claim to be a fan! ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/155 "2001-06-05T21:05:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*I stand corrected. You see my point though. > > An unfair world forbade Buttercups’s marriage to a mere farm boy despite the fact that they had **true love**. > Could anything else be unfairer? > > DId they complain and rail against life? Did they become bitter? No. Wesley went off to earn his fortune so they could be married. Then of course that whole Dread Pirate Robert’s thing happened, and Wesley was killed. > > How unfair was that? > > Buttercup was very sad. But, she did not despair. > > Hell, even in the Pit of Despair, they didn’t despair. > So, Wesley or Humperdink? > \*\* A little from column a, a little from column b. 😉 By the way… it was Fezzik. I’m also a big fan. I’ve read the book about 20 plus times and watched the movie countless times, which has annoyed my husband. He thinks that is symptomatic of me being an incurable romantic. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/156 "2001-06-05T21:14:07Z")
**and** ROUS’s ( **R** odents **O** f **U** nusual **S** ize ) sheesh. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/157 "2001-06-05T21:57:13Z")
And Wes **t** ley ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/158 "2001-06-05T22:04:11Z")
…Hello. My name is Fenris Montoya. You hijacked this thread. Prepare to die. Couple of asides, as long as there’s such a cool hijack going on: 1. Y’know the bit where Goldman says that if you write into his publisher, you’ll get an extra part of the story? I’ve got a copy somewhere and I believe it’s now available on the web. It’s pretty funny, inasmuch as it simply documents Goldman’s war with “Morgenstern’s” heirs and doesn’t give the promised text. 2. You _do_ know that “S. Morganstern” wrote a second book: The Silent Gondoliers that Goldman translated, right? (It’s nowhere near as good as The Princess Bride 3. Am I the only one who was fooled into thinking that the creepy, self-pitying, irritating author at the beginning (the one who has the frigid wife and the fat, useless child) was actually Goldman? (It’s not: apparently he’s very happily married, his kid’s not fat (and may be a girl) etc). Goldman commented somewhere that he was shocked that so many people believed that the unhappy writer was actually _him_. (I didn’t even read the opening part when reading it until I learned this) Apparently part of the idea is that Goldman wanted to show how empty this guy’s life is: his family’s falling apart and he tries to recapture his childhood. 4. The best part of the movie (and there were many, many wonderful parts) were Billy Crystal and Carole Kane(?) as Magic Max and Wife. I will _never_ be able to read that scene again without hearing Carole Kane shrieking “Liar! LIAR!” Fenris ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/159 "2001-06-05T22:05:25Z")
And **Inigo**. [sub]Did we miss any?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2001, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353/160 "2001-06-05T22:25:05Z")
HA! The letter for the reunion scene _IS_ on-line: [here](http://204.97.147.41/book.htm#reunion). And everyone, let’s all remember: Mawwige. Mawwige is a dweam wifvin a dweam. I think we can all agree on that. Fenris [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hastur-i-tried-to-be-the-voice-of-reason-but-you-are-being-a-schmuck/67353.md?page=9)