# Hat? in a Ring? Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 28, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hat-in-a-ring-why/318973 "2005-08-28T14:14:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hat-in-a-ring-why/318973/1 "2005-08-28T14:14:22Z")
I am re-reading a history of the air war in World War I. The famous American 94th Aero Squadron adopted Uncle Sam’s hat in a ring as their symbol. Why? I understand that ‘to have one’s hat in the ring’ means you are in on the fight. But why? Does this come to us from boxing or what? (Does the 94th still fly? Do they still have this symbol?) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hat-in-a-ring-why/318973/2 "2005-08-28T14:35:16Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Does this come to us from boxing or what? [Yes.]([http://www.word-detective.com/040503.html#hat](http://www.word-detective.com/040503.html#hat) in the ring) > [@](#): > > To “throw your hat in the ring” is an Americanism dating back to the early 19th century meaning to enter a contest, especially to declare your candidacy for political office. The “ring” in question was originally a boxing ring or other venue set up for fighting. Evidently it was the custom on the American frontier for a pugilist to literally throw his hat into the ring as a way of announcing that he was prepared to take on anyone in the crowd. The first use of the phrase in a political context was probably in 1912, when Theodore Roosevelt announced his intention to challenge William Howard Taft for the U.S. presidency: “My hat’s in the ring. The fight is on, and I’m stripped to the buff.” [The 94th still has their hat in the ring.](http://www.langley.af.mil/1og/94fs/default.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hat-in-a-ring-why/318973/3 "2005-08-28T15:36:29Z")
Teddy R stripped to the buff? An image I do not need. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hat-in-a-ring-why/318973/4 "2005-08-28T16:28:40Z")
I think the cite quoted by Larry Mudd is incorrect in a subtle way, or badly worded. I don’t think the “hat” belonged to the champ willing to take on challengers, it belonged to the challengers willing to take on the champ. The champ – perhaps having defeated a scheduled opponent – or his manager, would announce that he would take on anyone in the crowd. A challenger(s) would toss his hat into the ring to accept the challenge. The gesture could announce the challenger’s intentions from the back seats and over the crowd noise. This makes more sense, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hat-in-a-ring-why/318973/5 "2005-08-28T16:31:30Z")
One more thing. My version of the origin holds up better in the Teddy R. quote, too. Taft, as sitting president, was the champ. TR, the challenger, needed to do the hat tossing. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hat-in-a-ring-why/318973/6 "2005-08-28T19:58:15Z")
> [@stuyguy](#): > > One more thing. My version of the origin holds up better in the Teddy R. quote, too. Taft, as sitting president, was the champ. TR, the challenger, needed to do the hat tossing. I think you may be right. The earliest recorded use of the phrase is in John Hamilton Reynolds’ 1820 poem: > [@](#): > > Oh, it is life! to see a proud > And dauntless man step, full of hopes, > Up to the P.C. stakes and ropes, > Throw in his hat, and with a spring > Get gallantly within the ring; > Eye the wide crowd, and walk awhile > Taking all cheerings with a smile; > To see him strip, --his well-trained form, > White, glowing, muscular, and warm, > All beautiful in conscious power, > Relaxed and quiet, till the hour; > His glossy and transparent frame, > In radiant plight to strive for fame! > To look upon the clean-shap’d limb > In silk and flannel clothed trim; – > While round the waist the kerchief tied > Makes the flesh glow in richer pride. > 'Tis more than life, to watch him hold > His hand forth, tremulous yet bold, > Over his second’s, and to clasp > His rival’s in a quiet grasp; > To watch the noble attitude > He takes, – the crowd in breathless mood, – > And then to see, with adamant start, > The muscles set,–and the great heart > Hurl a courageous, splendid light > Into the eye, – and then – the _FIGHT._ On the other hand, at that time boxing matches were illegal and largely improvised. There was no ladder organization, and there weren’t necessarily championships to defend. It’s possible that _both_ men threw their hats into the ring by way of declaring that they wished to fight that night. Anyone know anything concrete about the organization of American boxing in the early 19th century? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hat-in-a-ring-why/318973/7 "2005-08-28T20:19:37Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I think you may be right. > > The earliest recorded use of the phrase is in John Hamilton Reynolds’ 1820 poem:On the other hand, at that time boxing matches were illegal and largely improvised. There was no ladder organization, and there weren’t necessarily championships to defend. It’s possible that _both_ men threw their hats into the ring by way of declaring that they wished to fight that night. > > Anyone know anything concrete about the organization of American boxing in the early 19th century? I can find rather easily an 1817 English cite, in the Times of London on one of my newspaper databases. It would appear that the event WAS illegal, but I can’t say with certainty from that cite just who was the champion and who was the lesser. I’ll look for more early cites. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hat-in-a-ring-why/318973/8 "2005-08-28T20:54:58Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Teddy R stripped to the buff? An image I do not need. > > Thank you. It might be more aesthetically appealing than his opponent in this case.