# Hate Crimes in America: Worse than we thought? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2016, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649 "2016-06-06T11:27:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/41 "2016-06-07T16:33:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Why is it easy to believe with no evidence? There’s no evidence that she started the fire either - should it be reported as a possible arson? > > Four years ago, some black woman claims her car was torched on MLK Day, therefore under-reporting of hate crimes is a significant issue. That’s a little underwhelming. So you’re suggesting she set her own car on fire in an effort to fake a hate crime? I guess that’s possible. But the article isn’t just about that one incident. The article just used that as an example; it went on to say there are 2700 other incidents like it. I suppose it’s possible that all of these cases represent people faking crimes against themselves. My suggestion would be we should keep collected the data about these crimes. If racists are committing these crimes, they should be caught and punished. If people are faking these crimes, then those people should be caught and punished. But I can’t see any benefit to be gained by not collecting and reporting the data. The only people who would benefit from that are the criminals who go uncaught. And the only people who would support that are people who condone the crimes being committed and want the criminals to remain free. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/42 "2016-06-07T16:52:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So you’re suggesting she set her own car on fire in an effort to fake a hate crime? I guess that’s possible. There’s just as much evidence for the one as the other. > [@](#): > > But the article isn’t just about that one incident. The article just used that as an example; it went on to say there are 2700 other incidents like it. If this is the best example they could find, I am not sanguine about the other 2699 either. > [@](#): > > But I can’t see any benefit to be gained by not collecting and reporting the data. If you mean investigating and reporting this as a crime, sure. What are the advantages of reporting this as a hate crime, and how would you distinguish this from any other crime committed against a black person? As I said earlier, OK, it happened on MLK Day. If that, in and of itself, is enough to trigger a report to the hate crimes database, then maybe every crime committed on Valentine’s Day is a sex crime. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/43 "2016-06-07T17:04:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > There’s just as much evidence for the one as the other. > If this is the best example they could find, I am not sanguine about the other 2699 either.If you mean investigating and reporting this as a crime, sure. What are the advantages of reporting this as a hate crime, and how would you distinguish this from any other crime committed against a black person? As I said earlier, OK, it happened on MLK Day. If that, in and of itself, is enough to trigger a report to the hate crimes database, then maybe every crime committed on Valentine’s Day is a sex crime. I see that you are going to continue to treat this one small example like the glove in the O.J. Simpson case: “If the example don’t fit, you must dismiss!” You seem to be pretty damn silent about the rest of the article-anything to say about those cities that didn’t do any reporting at all, or Multnomah County(which includes the whole Portland Metro area)? Are we to believe if you can show that “this glove” of yours doesn’t fit, then we can just assume there just aren’t hate crimes to report in all those cities? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/44 "2016-06-07T17:45:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are we to believe if you can show that “this glove” of yours doesn’t fit, then we can just assume there just aren’t hate crimes to report in all those cities? You can assume whatever you like. If you are going to suggest that under-reporting of hate crimes is a significant issue, I would expect you to come with some kind of data to indicate that this is so. Got anything like that? Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence. It isn’t evidence of presence, either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/45 "2016-06-07T17:54:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You can assume whatever you like. If you are going to suggest that under-reporting of hate crimes is a significant issue, I would expect you to come with some kind of data to indicate that this is so. Got anything like that? Yeah-the article linked to in the OP, and subsequent links found later in the thread. Try reading beyond the one story you’ve glommed onto like a chew toy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/46 "2016-06-07T18:05:49Z")
[A report from 2013](http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/hate-crimes/adl-2012-hate-crime-statistics-report-flawed.html) from the ADL decrying the lack of reporting of hate crime statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/47 "2016-06-07T19:44:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence. It isn’t evidence of presence, either. Exactly. So why are you so opposed to gathering evidence? If you really believe hate crimes are being faked, you should welcome the gathering of the evidence that will prove that. The only people who have a reason to oppose the gathering of evidence are those who suspect the evidence will prove them wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/48 "2016-06-07T19:50:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah-the article linked to in the OP, and subsequent links found later in the thread. I’ve read the article linked to. Perhaps you may have noticed that I mentioned it in every post I have made to the thread. And I don’t see any links that show examples of, or statistics about, hate crimes that weren’t reported but should have been. Your ADL link doesn’t do that, for instance. And just to give an answer to your title question - > [@](#): > > **Hate Crimes in America: Worse than we thought?** There’s no evidence to suggest it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/49 "2016-06-07T19:57:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’ve read the article linked to. Perhaps you may have noticed that I mentioned it in every post I have made to the thread. And I don’t see any links that show examples of, or statistics about, hate crimes that weren’t reported but should have been. Your ADL link doesn’t do that, for instance. > > And just to give an answer to your title question - > There’s no evidence to suggest it. > > Regards, > Shodan Aaaaand…playtime with you is now over. If you can’t see the information already given, I see no reason why I should bother to give you any more. There are others here to converse with. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/50 "2016-06-07T20:02:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Exactly. So why are you so opposed to gathering evidence? Perhaps you could cite one solitary word I have posted saying that I opposed gathering evidence. You can’t, obviously, so perhaps you can consider instead that I have been asking for evidence over and over again. Not much so far, I am afraid. Look, if this is just faith-based, and there are hundreds of Invisible Pink Unicorns out there torching black folks’ Mercedes and covering it up, that’s fine. Just don’t post > [@](#): > > We should collect the data and look at all of it to see if there’s a pattern… and I agree, that you then complain that I am opposed to the data. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/51 "2016-06-07T20:04:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Aaaaand…playtime with you is now over. If you can’t see the information already given, I see no reason why I should bother to give you any more. There are others here to converse with. So you got nothing. _:shrugs:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/52 "2016-06-07T20:15:38Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Thanks to both of you. Interesting data, in the way that a train wreck is interesting. It is a bit of a mess. I can tell you that I find it _very_ hard to believe that there have been no hate crimes to report in all of Multnomah County for the last few years-I live in Portland, and keep up on what’s going on here…and while it’s rather laid back, it’s no racial paradise by a long ways. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/53 "2016-06-07T20:26:33Z")
For a good example where I live, [there is the story that leads this article.](http://www.oregonlive.com/data/2016/06/no_full_accounting_of_hate_cri.html) Obvious hate crime, but this district didn’t report their stats to the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/54 "2016-06-07T20:47:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For a good example where I live, [there is the story that leads this article.](http://www.oregonlive.com/data/2016/06/no_full_accounting_of_hate_cri.html) Obvious hate crime, but this district didn’t report their stats to the FBI. That story was reported in the article linked to in the OP, and I mentioned it in one of my first posts to this thread. > [@](#): > > The man was arrested and ultimately faced a federal hate crime charge, in addition to state charges. After a federal jury deadlocked, he pleaded guilty to an assault charge in state court and the federal case was dismissed. > > Yet what happened to Beltier was never included in the FBI’s national hate crimes report because the Hillsboro Police Department was among those found to be not reporting to the FBI during the six-year period. > > Hillsboro Police Lt. Michael Rouches blamed the lapse on a technical problem between his department and the state, and said the problem was discovered last year when the department was in the process of applying for a grant and noticed the data was missing. > > The lack of reporting should not suggest the department didn’t aggressively investigate what happened to Beltier and his boyfriend, Rouches said. > > “We ran with it as soon as we got it, and we got to the bottom of it,” he said. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649/55 "2016-06-07T20:53:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Perhaps you could cite one solitary word I have posted saying that I opposed gathering evidence. So you agree that local communities should be reporting the types of incidents the FBI has listed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-crimes-in-america-worse-than-we-thought/756649.md?page=2)