# Hate for Hillary - from where and why. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 26, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550 "2019-05-26T13:40:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/61 "2019-05-28T01:01:34Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > … > Talk about laughable. If Clinton isn’t vehemently anti-gun in your view, then our scales are pretty far apart. I mean, you say with a straight face that she didn’t want to ban whole swaths of guns at the same time saying she wanted to ban assault weapons. I guess assault weapons aren’t whole swathes of guns in your mind either? She wanted to repeal the PLCAA. She wanted to allow unlimited delays in background checks, then require them for all sales. She was in favor of the 1994 AWB. I mean, if we can’t even agree that Clinton was anti-gun, well that’s your opinion I suppose. … You know you & I mostly agree on guns, but I would not say Clinton was \*vehemently \*anti-gun. She is more or less middle of the road as far as anti-gun goes. Booker is vehemently anti-gun. Harris might be vehemently anti-gun, I think she is but her stated public policy isnt Booker bad. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/62 "2019-05-28T01:16:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Someone else posted before that Hillary’s voice, appearance and style reminds many voters, subconsciously, of an overbearing room teacher or school-authority figure from their childhood and that brings back unpleasant memories. The quote used by the Doper was “Hillary is like the teacher who deliberately assigns you a ton of homework right before you begin school break” (can’t find the thread.) I think that was me. From a thread with almost the same title right after the election I wrote > [@](#): > > I voted for Hillary Clinton, and not just as a lesser of two evils. I think she would have made a decent president and as a moderate liberal I agree with most of her positions. She would have had a rough time with congress, but so would most any Dem. I do agree that some of the hate is based on a misogynistic dislike of women in power, and also that some was based on absurd conspiracy and utter nonsense, like Benghazi and Vince Foster. > > But. > > Even if you ignore the nonsense, there is still a lot of stuff associated with the Clintons that reeks of corruption and bad judgement. The Clinton foundation was a huge conflict of interest, and smelled of pay to play, even if nothing could be proven. Lack of transparency was a real issue, and talking money from Saudi Arabia looks odd for a champion of Women’s rights. The email server showed appalling judgement and an arrogant “rules for thee but not for me” attitude. A lesser government employee would have been frog marched to the door for handling classified materials in that matter, even if it wasn’t criminal. > > It’s not just right wingers that don’t like Clinton. My progressive friends really dislike her chumminess with wall street, including secret speeches and cushy jobs for Chelsea. It made them skeptical that there would be any real reform of the financial sector under her administration. They also don’t like her hawkishness and eagerness to get entangled in Middle East conflicts. > > She is seen as the insider’s insider, thoroughly enmeshed in DC power structures. More and more people feel that the establishment is serving itself, not the people it is supposed to serve. The DNC basically anointed her Queen, and helped her fight off a rebellion from Bernie Sanders. When Bill ran for office, he was the governor of a small state, and had to fight his way through a primary where he was not favored at first. Now he and Hillary mingle with the rich and powerful, including Donald Trump back in the day. > > And there is the Charisma thing. It’s partly misogyny, but it’s not just misogyny. There was a very charismatic woman on the trail with her: Michelle Obama. When Michelle speaks she is genuine and emotional and seems to be really speaking to you. Hillary is harsh and phony. She reminds people of the teacher who would assign extra homework on a long weekend. Her attempts at empathy seem rehearsed rather than natural. You can argue that that’s unfair, but it’s real. I’ll bet most of you, men and women alike, have encountered people you just didn’t warm to, simply because talking to them was so awkward. > > You can argue against all these points, but they are real critiques, and can’t just be dismissed as the ravings of right wing crazies. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=810330](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=810330) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/63 "2019-05-28T01:16:35Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > … Maybe that’s just my personal hangup, but I don’t respond well to other people telling me how to raise my kids… . Well it’s a good damn thing that Hillary Clinton didn’t do that, eh? But you go ahead and hate her for something in your imagination, if it pleases you. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/64 "2019-05-28T01:20:35Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > That’s because you haven’t said anything of substance. > I’ve read summaries. Even what you’ve said right here is objectionable enough. I don’t want Clinton’s vision for the children of America. Nor did it seem the country as a whole both times she ran. That she felt qualified to opine on what children need was off putting enough. Maybe that’s just my personal hangup, but I don’t respond well to other people telling me how to raise my kids. She wasn’t telling people how to raise their kids. She was using an analogy to describe the influence of the community/government/neighborhood/extended families/support networks at large on the growth and development of children. Whoch ig seems should be an important part of the consideration for anyone seeking to influence government policy. And which conservatives can’t shut up about, but when it’s Hillary Clinton, somehow that’s supremely offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/65 "2019-05-28T01:26:17Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > That’s because you haven’t said anything of substance. > I’ve read summaries. Even what you’ve said right here is objectionable enough. I don’t want Clinton’s vision for the children of America. Nor did it seem the country as a whole both times she ran. That she felt qualified to opine on what children need was off putting enough. Maybe that’s just my personal hangup, but I don’t respond well to other people telling me how to raise my kids. She wasn’t telling people how to raise their kids. She was using an analogy to describe the influence of the community/government/neighborhood/extended families/support networks at large on the growth and development of children. Which it seems should be an important part of the consideration for anyone seeking to influence government policy. And which conservatives can’t shut up about, but when it’s Hillary Clinton, somehow that’s supremely offensive. When it comes down to it, there’s no good reason to hate Hillary, not any more than any mainstream politician. There’s absolutely no reason that Hillary Clinton, a competent, boring politician, should have become the most negatively viewed centrist or Democratic candidate in recent history. It’s because of a decades-long organized campaign to paint her as beyond the pale and make her a negative symbol of the left. The hate only makes sense in the context of creating wedge issues based on identity politics. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/66 "2019-05-28T01:59:44Z")
It is true that some people really don’t seem to like Ms. Clinton much. I like her, but think of her as a very intelligent policy wonk with nothing like Bill Clinton’s charisma. Getting elected often seems to mean making compromises and giving different messages to different people. Clinton has been in politics for a long time. There is probably some misogyny, but I don’t think this fully explains things. Certainly she was tarred by 90s conservative talk radio. I am sure many people resent an accomplished, outspoken and successful woman. But being that may mean, fairly or not, being perceived as less feminine or less family oriented. She has been portrayed, fairly or not, as being (at times) smug, condescending, giving different messages to different audiences, being extremely ambitious, lacking warmth, etc. I don’t think many of these characterization are unusual in politicians. Journalists, noting Trump had one or two negative characteristics, seemed to compensate during the campaign by making mountains out of Clinton’s molehills. And things like pantsuits and minor gaffes were given much more weight than they were worth. I think she’s been in politics so long it eventually became a sort of lazy shorthand for people to bond over dislike of Clinton - people will disagree over health policy, foreign policy, tax policy, confound Bill and Hilary, dislike an active First Lady, believe the stronger nonsense or dislike female politicians — but there are certainly times when she seemed to lack a lighter touch. Trump has been a very different president who has shaken up the old ways, although many of these were sensible and time-proven. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/67 "2019-05-28T03:25:19Z")
It wasn’t an accident—“lazy shorthand”—it was an intentional and sustained campaign of continuous attack from 1992 onward. The firehouse of bullshit. And it wasn’t just Rush Limbaugh. Every single person on the right signed on to one extent or other to the notion that Hillary Clinton was uniquely odious, corrupt, dishonest, etc. And the mainstream media simply accepted that she was somehow inherently “divisive,” as of that was somehow because of something she did. And the right is doing it again, to people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. A constant barrage of blatantly idiotic nonsense so that mere mention of her initials evokes an instant image of an insanely radical a Bugbear. She’s might become the most skilled and charismatic politician of her time, but if she gets close to running for president, she’ll be weighed down by the same kind of nonsense that burdened Hillary Clinton. And then some large group of people will bray like a Broderian ass about “see what happens when you nominate the most disliked candidate in the field?” ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/68 "2019-05-28T04:51:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You know you & I mostly agree on guns, but I would not say Clinton was \*vehemently \*anti-gun. She is more or less middle of the road as far as anti-gun goes. Booker is vehemently anti-gun. Harris might be vehemently anti-gun, I think she is but her stated public policy isnt Booker bad. You’ll have to illustrate how the two are different. Clinton pushed the 1994 AWB. She wanted to eliminate the PLCAA - in an effort to bankrupt gun manufacturing in the US. She thought Heller was wrongly decided - meaning she wanted to also be able to ban handguns. If she’s middle of the road, well, we see the road completely different. > [@bobot](#): > > Well it’s a good damn thing that Hillary Clinton didn’t do that, eh? But you go ahead and hate her for something in your imagination, if it pleases you. As long as she’s not attempting to craft public policy, then I wouldn’t give her a moment’s thought. > [@Acsenray](#): > > When it comes down to it, there’s no good reason to hate Hillary, not any more than any mainstream politician. There’s absolutely no reason that Hillary Clinton, a competent, boring politician, should have become the most negatively viewed centrist or Democratic candidate in recent history. It’s because of a decades-long organized campaign to paint her as beyond the pale and make her a negative symbol of the left. > > The hate only makes sense in the context of creating wedge issues based on identity politics. Why do you rule out actual policy differences? This is the kind of thing I’m talking about. I can list out substantive policy positions that are disagreeable, but no, those are tossed out as no good reason. It’s like caricatures all the way down. As far as AOC - I kinda like her. I mean, I disagree with virtually every policy position she puts out there, but she’s very charismatic and engaging. I really liked the campaign she ran. Watching the Netflix documentary, _Bring Down the House_ was pretty inspiring. If only she had better policy positions. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/69 "2019-05-28T05:35:44Z")
**Bone** , do you think Hillary Clinton lost because of her policy positions? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/70 "2019-05-28T07:15:03Z")
It would be interesting to learn if **Bone** would care to name a man in politics with virtually the same policy positions as Mrs. Clinton’s. And if he finds that man to be objectionable to an equivalent degree as he finds Mrs. Clinton to be. ETA: And to assess the general Hillary-hating public’s expressed opinion of him. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/71 "2019-05-28T07:56:24Z")
I know that I am biased against Bill, and that probably has something to do with taking in a lot of Rush Limbaugh back in about 1991-1992. So maybe I am unfair to the Clintons. But I think there really was some self-dealing through their foundations, and they had some very strange economics. It seems like she wasn’t a good candidate in the eyes of working-class swing voters, and she just didn’t care. Strange woman. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/72 "2019-05-28T09:13:38Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > That’s because you haven’t said anything of substance. Gee, we used to have pretty good discussions. I remember some very interesting back-and-forths with you, without this kind of very thinly disguised vitriol. I wonder what happened? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/73 "2019-05-28T11:11:44Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I know that I am biased against Bill, and that probably has something to do with taking in a lot of Rush Limbaugh back in about 1991-1992. > > So maybe I am unfair to the Clintons. But I think there really was some self-dealing through their foundations, and they had some very strange economics. It seems like she wasn’t a good candidate in the eyes of working-class swing voters, and she just didn’t care. Strange woman. Just didn’t care? Or just was less appealing to one side and decided that the way to win elections is to get your base fired up. That’s certainly how the right does things. What in the world do you base the “strange woman” on? I have seen anything about her that’s strange, other than her unusual level of success, which most people don’t achieve. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/74 "2019-05-28T11:32:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Why do you rule out actual policy differences? This is the kind of thing I’m talking about. I can list out substantive policy positions that are disagreeable, but no, those are tossed out as no good reason. It’s like caricatures all the way down. Her policy positions are very common, and no one gets hated like her, not on a daily basis for 25 years. It’s obvious that people don’t hate Hillary Clinton because of policy. The way they talk about her makes it obvious too. There’s nothing rational about it. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/75 "2019-05-28T12:40:27Z")
70+ posts with no mention of sleaziness related to billing records of the Rose Law Firm? Improbable & spectacular profits in commodities trading? These were significant sources of negative public sentiment that long predate most of what has been mentioned here. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/76 "2019-05-28T12:55:17Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > 70+ posts with no mention of sleaziness related to billing records of the Rose Law Firm? Improbable & spectacular profits in commodities trading? > > These were significant sources of negative public sentiment that long predate most of what has been mentioned here. None of that produced any evidence of wrongdoing on Hillary Clinton’s part. It’s not like she’s the only politician whose friends and associates have been caught up in scandal. And no one would have looked that closetat the Tose Law Firm anyway had her entire kife already been targeted. None of these things add up to rational basis for hatred. And none of them are unusual for politicians generally. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/77 "2019-05-28T12:57:53Z")
There are plenty of reasons for substantive dislike of Hillary Clinton. In my experience, tons of people who hate Hillary Clinton openly say that they dislike her because of the way she comes across on television, or some variation of that, rather than anything substantive. For this latter group, it’s entirely (trigger warning **Bone!** ) reasonable to suspect that misogyny, chauvinism, or related phenomena might have something to do with their attitude about her. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/78 "2019-05-28T13:56:26Z")
So we don’t want people even talking about how children should be raised, is that it? People shouldn’t have opinions on how they should dress, how they should behave, what they should and should not wear, what they should and should not eat? I don’t know what kind of society some people grew up in, but that’s not one I recognize. Where I grew up if a liberal had said “I don’t want people talking about X” conservatives, which comprised the majority, would have responded with a hearty “Tough shit.” Sorry, but people are going to have opinions. People are going to try to legislate based on those opinions. Rather than attacking someone for simply having them in the first place, maybe try to have more substantive and valid opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/79 "2019-05-28T14:16:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are plenty of reasons for substantive dislike of Hillary Clinton. In my experience, tons of people who hate Hillary Clinton openly say that they dislike her because of the way she comes across on television, or some variation of that, rather than anything substantive. For this latter group, it’s entirely (trigger warning **Bone!** ) reasonable to suspect that misogyny, chauvinism, or related phenomena might have something to do with their attitude about her. Yes there are substantive reasons to dislike her, or rather her policy positions. But there’s no rational reason to hate her. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/80 "2019-05-28T14:20:10Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Those aren’t real issues. But look at what left leaning folks in this thread focus on - no substantive issues. Instead, things that don’t matter, and facile caricatures. No matter, her political career is essentially over so she doesn’t much matter anymore. I’d raise objection to any politician who espouses the positions she did. “Nasty woman” was not a substantive rebuke of Clinton’s policy positions, or even a reasonable opinion of her personality. Of course there are _reasonable reasons_ not to be a huge fan, but she’s also dedicated much of her life to public service and trying to make America better. How did we go from that to one major party candidate calling her a “NASTY WOMAN” during a major televised debate!? And not being rebuked for it! NASTY WOMAN tapped into something much deeper than opposing her policies. I freely admit that this is conjecture on my part, I wish I had some data to back it up, but I’m not sure how you prove misogyny scientifically. To me, though, much like gamergate, the sheer degree to which people hate on Clinton goes well beyond their stated reasons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550.md?page=5)