# Hate for Hillary - from where and why. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 26, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550 "2019-05-26T13:40:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/81 "2019-05-28T14:38:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Gee, we used to have pretty good discussions. I remember some very interesting back-and-forths with you, without this kind of very thinly disguised vitriol. I wonder what happened? I’ve noticed that you’ve ncreasingly used some form of the rejoinder “your argument has nothing to do with what I said” in many threads as you did above. Maybe that has something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/82 "2019-05-28T14:56:39Z")
So it’s the “takes a village crap” and _ **GUNS!!** _ Those are the ONLY reasons we’ve come up with for the Hillary hatred. Since the Board’s own Hillary haters aren’t contributing we’re left to speculate in caricatures? She’s “shrill”? She has too many X chromosomes? There’s no doubt in my mind that the major reason is that right-wing heroes like Rush Limbaugh _ **told them to hate her.** _ > [@Xema](#): > > 70+ posts with no mention of sleaziness related to billing records of the Rose Law Firm? Improbable & spectacular profits in commodities trading? > > These were significant sources of negative public sentiment that long predate most of what has been mentioned here. Let’s round up a random group of 100 Americans who admit to hating Hillary. How many of them could remember or articulate anything intelligible about her commodity trading? Will you bet with me, **Xema**? What’s your pick on this question, 50+? I’m torn between guessing zero and one. The Hillary haters who don’t even remember that Hillary was once a lawyer outnumber those who could say anything intelligible about her law career. Note that Bill isn’t hated, despite that HE also made the commodity bet, HIS name is also on the Clinton Foundation, and HE was the one out grabbing pussy. Am I correct that only one Hillary hater has actually posted in the thread? Are the Haters implicitly admitting that they know their hatred is irrational? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/83 "2019-05-28T15:09:15Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I’ve noticed that you’ve ncreasingly used some form of the rejoinder “your argument has nothing to do with what I said” in many threads as you did above. Maybe that has something to do with it. I used to try and dig to figure out what a poster actually objects to in my posts, when something doesn’t seem to match what I actually posted. But now I just identify it and move on. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/84 "2019-05-28T15:14:54Z")
The thing is, I think your “identification” of such has a lot of false positives. It’s connected, probably, to why Bone rolls his eyes at our use of “reasonable”. Your opinion is the “reasonable” one so anyone who disagrees must either be unreasonable or not understand what you’re saying. But hey, you do you. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/85 "2019-05-28T15:15:23Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I’ve noticed that you’ve ncreasingly used some form of the rejoinder “your argument has nothing to do with what I said” in many threads as you did above. Maybe that has something to do with it. Are you saying that Bone’s thinly veiled vitriol towards posters he disagrees with has something to do with how his responses to iiandyiiii’s arguments are not relevant to anything that he said? You probably are on to something. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/86 "2019-05-28T15:21:06Z")
I said iiandyiii’s shtick might rub people the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/87 "2019-05-28T15:55:20Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The thing is, I think your “identification” of such has a lot of false positives. It’s connected, probably, to why Bone rolls his eyes at our use of “reasonable”. Your opinion is the “reasonable” one so anyone who disagrees must either be unreasonable or not understand what you’re saying. But hey, you do you. It is indeed possible. My use of “reasonable” isn’t meant to signal “this is factually the reasonable position and if you disagree you are unreasonable”, but rather “I see this as reasonable, and this is where my opinion is coming from… if you don’t see this as reasonable, then that is the source of our disagreement, and let’s explore that”. My ultimate goal in these sort of disagreements is to try and drill down to the fundamental point of disagreement – and it often is different perceptions and understandings of phenomena like racism and misogyny. And I want to explore those different perceptions and understandings. Some posters enjoy that, and some do not. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/88 "2019-05-28T16:06:27Z")
Lots of great reasons to hate Hillary. Cattle Futures - When her husband was governor she allowed a lawyer for Tyson foods to trade commodities on her behalf. She supposedly risked more than their combined annual income on commodities trading despite not having enough cash for a margin call. Her account was able to grow to $100,000 by betting on a fall cattle futures at a time when cattle prices doubled. A study by Auburn university found that likelihood of achieving such results were 1 in 31 trillion. She received a legal bribe from a lawyer for a big business for husband was dealing with as governor. She helped cover up and enable Bill Clinton’s treatment of women- Bill Clinton had a history of using women and sexually assaulting them. Hillary knew about the women and empowered him to keep doing it. She helped prepare the strategy for her husband’s bimbo eruption team and defended him publicly against accusations she knew to be true. When news of the affair with Lewinsky came out she publicly blamed it on a vast right wing conspiracy. She enabled her husband’s poor treatment of women because riding his coattails gave her more power. Just to prove it was no fluke she had a[campaign adviser](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rubycramer/hillary-clinton-let-him-stay-women-say-his-harassment) who was accused of sexual harassment three separate times, and kept him on for years even though all her other advisers wanted him gone. She lies and covers up during investigations - During the Whitewater investigation her billing records from the Rose Law Firm were subpoenaed. She claimed they were lost and then two years later the records were found in the Clinton residence with her fingerprints on them. She defied the subpoena because laws are for little people and don’t apply to her. When there was a controversy over the Travel Office firings when Clinton first became president, she lied to the investigators and said she had nothing to do with it, but memos surfaced that refuted her claim. After Benghazi she told the relatives of the dead that the incident was caused by a film and that they were going to get the filmmaker despite her knowing that the incident was terrorism and had nothing to do with the film. Healthcare Debacle - Despite her having no experience in the area she was given the task of creating a new healthcare bill. An economist who worked on the task force with her said "My two cents’ worth–and I think it is the two cents’ worth of everybody who worked for the Clinton Administration health care reform effort of 1993-1994–is that Hillary Rodham Clinton needs to be kept very far away from the White House for the rest of her life. Heading up health-care reform was the only major administrative job she has ever tried to do. And she was a complete flop at it. She had neither the grasp of policy substance, the managerial skills, nor the political smarts to do the job she was then given. And she wasn’t smart enough to realize that she was in over her head and had to get out of the Health Care Czar role quickly. So when senior members of the economic team said that key senators like Daniel Patrick Moynihan would have this-and-that objection, she told them they were disloyal. When junior members of the economic team told her that the Congressional Budget Office would say such-and-such, she told them (wrongly) that her conversations with CBO head Robert Reischauer had already fixed that. When long-time senior hill staffers told her that she was making a dreadful mistake by fighting with rather than reaching out to John Breaux and Jim Cooper, she told them that they did not understand the wave of popular political support the bill would generate. " That supports what I have been told by people who have worked for her. She is a demanding boss, arrogant, and quick to mistake disagreement with disloyalty. She is paranoid - The whole reason she set up a private server for her email which was against advise and against the law was because she did not want to have to give the press access to her records. She compromised national security by putting classified information on an unsecured server because she cared more about her own privacy than the country’s interests. She created a [spreadsheet](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/hillary-clinton-hit-list-102067) of people disloyal to her after the 2008 campaign ranking them according to perceived disloyalty. She is greedy - She has sought to make money from her political connections. [She](https://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/23/most-of-those-who-met-with-clinton-as-secretary-of-state-donated-to-foundation.html) let her husband raise funds from foreign governments for the Clinton Foundation while she was Secretary of State. People she talked to as Secretary of State gave the Clinton Foundation 156 million dollars. 16 foreign governments she met with as Secretary of State gave 170 million dollars. She [allowed](https://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/ethics-approval-came-easily-at-hillary-clintons-state-department-115468) her husband to earn millions giving speeches to foreign interests as Secretary. As soon as she stopped being Secretary of State she started giving speeches to groups for hundreds of thousands of dollars while she was planning a run for president. She was paid 21 million dollars by groups to give speeches while she was planning her campaign. She supports whatever is necessary to get power - She has changed sides on so many issues. She said marriage was “a sacred bond between a man and a woman” and supported the Defense of Marriage Act, then switched as soon as gay marriage become popular among donors. She said TPP was the gold standard of trade agreements and then opposed it. She voted for the Iraq war and then came out against it. She said about immigration “We have to send a clear message that just because your child gets across the border, that doesn’t mean your child gets to stay” then she changed her mind. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/89 "2019-05-28T16:15:21Z")
I’ve known the Clintons since Bill was governor of Arkansas and Hillary was a partner at the Rose Law Firm. She’s just not likeable. Which is a HUGE contrast with her husband. And her ambition isn’t based upon doing things for the American people, it is **power** , clear and simple. There probably is some misogyny, involved, as power hungry women are seen in worse light than power hunger men. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/90 "2019-05-28T16:17:36Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I said iiandyiii’s shtick might rub people the wrong way. True, reasonable discussion may rub people the wrong way when they are insisting upon a position that they can not defend with reason. Easier to ignore and “discount” the things that “rub you the wrong way”. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/91 "2019-05-28T16:19:38Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Lots of great reasons to hate Hillary. Shady business dealings. Poor treatment of women. Lies and conceals during investigations. No actual policy experience or managerial skills – “in over head” Paranoid. Greedy. Will take whatever position seems to be necessary to hold power. ^^^ 100% of that describes Trump, so none of those can possibly the reason for the vitriol directed towards Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/92 "2019-05-28T16:28:18Z")
Democrats who want Trump gone have a new and legitimate grievance against Hillary Clinton - she just isn’t willing to relinquish the spotlight, scheduling interviews to carp and moan about being denied the Presidency and other topics, casting a shadow over other contenders for the 2020 nomination. (I say “other contenders” because it’s clear HRC still craves the Presidency and is obviously hoping that potential nominees crash and burn, leading the party to turn to her as their savior. And if anyone can assure another four years of Donald Trump\*, it’s Hillary Clinton). \*with genius strategies like lying about being under fire and contemptuously dismissing a large segment of voters as “deplorables”. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/93 "2019-05-28T16:30:10Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Shady business dealings. > > Poor treatment of women. > > Lies and conceals during investigations. > > No actual policy experience or managerial skills – “in over head” > > Paranoid. > > Greedy. > > Will take whatever position seems to be necessary to hold power. > ^^^ 100% of that describes Trump, so none of those can possibly the reason for the vitriol directed towards Hillary. I can’t stand Trump, but… > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > power hungry women are seen in worse light than power hunger men. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/94 "2019-05-28T16:31:11Z")
There’s a Facebook meme (dates about 2 years ago, I think) in which Bambi’s mother tells Bambi: “Bambi, I have information that will lead to the indictment of Hillary Clinton.” That should give a clue as to why Hillary elicits such strong suspicion and dislike. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/95 "2019-05-28T16:32:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are plenty of reasons for substantive dislike of Hillary Clinton. In my experience, tons of people who hate Hillary Clinton openly say that they dislike her because of the way she comes across on television, or some variation of that, rather than anything substantive. For this latter group, it’s entirely (trigger warning **Bone!** ) reasonable to suspect that misogyny, chauvinism, or related phenomena might have something to do with their attitude about her. So it appears from this thread, that people who dislike Clinton are largely misogynistic, chauvinistic or worse. So that accounts for the vast majority of republicans. What about the millions of democrats that voted for Trump, or didn’t vote for Clinton? Are they all women hating a-holes too? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/96 "2019-05-28T16:32:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Gee, we used to have pretty good discussions. I remember some very interesting back-and-forths with you, without this kind of very thinly disguised vitriol. I wonder what happened? I’ve regularly called you on your lack of substance labeling things you agree with as reasonable. It’s a meaningless word that is fundamentally wishy washy and lacking in substance. Watch, I’ll illustrate: _There are plenty of reasons for substantive dislike of Hillary Clinton. In my experience, tons of people who hate Hillary Clinton openly say that they dislike her because of the way she comes across on television, or some variation of that, rather than anything substantive. For this latter group, it’s entirely reasonable to suspect that this is shorthand for policy disagreements and may have something to do with their attitude about her._ Or like this: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not her disfavor – but the incredible white-hot hatred that goes far beyond the typical dislike that conservatives have for liberals and Democrats. That’s what I think it’s reasonable to attribute to misogyny – just like birtherism and the other nonsense that went beyond typical dislike for liberals against Obama can reasonably be attributed to racism. Not everyone who dislikes Hillary Clinton is a misogynist, but those who really, really hate her and were influenced to that hatred by Rush Limbaugh and similar, likely have been strongly influenced by misogyny. What does this even mean? It’s crafted in a way to allow deflection of any counter example. Disagree with actual policy, oh then not that type of dislike. It’s like a True Scotsman took up residence and filters everything that comes out the front door. If people dislike a certain politician, they are going to use whatever material sticks to attack them. Here’s a more benign example. I don’t like Billy Bob Thorton as an actor. I don’t like his looks, his voice, his mannerisms, the way he delivers lines, pretty much if he’s in a movie, it’s harder for me to watch it. I can level these criticisms about him and it has nothing to do with his gender, or being a misandrist. Can the same be said about a female actress without drawing scrutiny for misogyny? And then as has been mentioned, you fall back on one of a couple schticks. The first is claiming that criticism of your position isn’t actually related to what you’ve said. The second is the ‘golly gee’ attitude which is also on display here (trigger warnings). It’s fine, if you want to respond in an unserious way, then you get unserious responses. I mean, I’m glad you mock trigger warnings because they are fucking bullshit, but trust me, I’m not triggered. I’ve always written directly and straightforwardly. If there is a question that says, is the answer A, or B? And the response is, well, it could be A, and it could be B. I’m going to say that is a meaningless answer. And that’s the type of thing you’ve offered. > [@Biotop](#): > > **Bone** , do you think Hillary Clinton lost because of her policy positions? I think Clinton lost for a number of reasons, of which her policy positions were a part. With less than 100K total votes across three states, do I think her vehement anti-gun rhetoric may have influenced less people to go to the polls that would have otherwise, and more people to go to the polls that would not have otherwise? I don’t know the answer to that and I don’t know if there is a single _‘but for’_ reason. I would like the answer to be yes. I would like the answer to be a definitive yes with such magnitude as to make her policy positions radioactive for any future politician and that if anyone were to take up her mantle they would be severely punished electorally. But I don’t know. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > It would be interesting to learn if **Bone** would care to name a man in politics with virtually the same policy positions as Mrs. Clinton’s. > > And if he finds that man to be objectionable to an equivalent degree as he finds Mrs. Clinton to be. > > ETA: And to assess the general Hillary-hating public’s expressed opinion of him. Bloomberg comes to mind. If not for him, most gun control groups would have floundered and he is probably the single most influential person in the gun control movement. So yeah, fuck that guy. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Her policy positions are very common, and no one gets hated like her, not on a daily basis for 25 years. It’s obvious that people don’t hate Hillary Clinton because of policy. The way they talk about her makes it obvious too. There’s nothing rational about it. This is also a function of her being in a highly visible role - yeah not that many people have been hated on a daily basis for 25 years, but not that many people have been in top leadership positions for 25 years. As First Lady, then as Senator, then as Secretary of State, then as a two time presidential candidate, she’s been in the spot light for a very long time. Leaders get the hate. But much like Bush 43 who also got a lot of hate, after office he’s just not a focus. Nor is Clinton. I grant that Trump for some reason can’t get over it and still likes to bash on her, but he’s kinda an outlier. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/97 "2019-05-28T16:33:53Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > True, reasonable discussion may rub people the wrong way when they are insisting upon a position that they can not defend with reason. > > Easier to ignore and “discount” the things that “rub you the wrong way”. This doesn’t seem to address anything I’ve actually said, so I’ll just identify that and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/98 "2019-05-28T16:35:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > But much like Bush 43 who also got a lot of hate, after office he’s just not a focus. Nor is Clinton. I grant that Trump for some reason can’t get over it and still likes to bash on her, but he’s kinda an outlier. I agree that Clinton isn’t a focus, except when she keeps putting herself in the spotlight. W kind of road off into the sunset. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/99 "2019-05-28T16:38:04Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > So it appears from this thread, that people who dislike Clinton are largely misogynistic, chauvinistic or worse. I’m not sure this is so, and my posts don’t indicate this. > [@](#): > > So that accounts for the vast majority of republicans. What about the millions of democrats that voted for Trump, or didn’t vote for Clinton? Are they all women hating a-holes too? I expect the answer is pretty complicated. I was talking about a specific phenomena – the right-wing infotainer-fueled vitriol and hatred of Hillary Clinton. So Rush Limbaugh and those influenced by him and those like him, which I believe qualifies for a large number (but by no means all) of conservatives and Republicans (and some Democrats too). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/100 "2019-05-28T16:48:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > This doesn’t seem to address anything I’ve actually said, so I’ll just identify that and move on. I apologize for misunderstanding. Would you like to clarify why you believe people are afraid of a reasoned discussion? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550.md?page=6)