# Hate for Hillary - from where and why. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 26, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550 "2019-05-26T13:40:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/161 "2019-05-29T15:35:04Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Thank you. This is the type of thing I was wondering about when I posted the OP. Whether it’s mostly true or not seems not to be the issue. But even if it is, the hate directed toward her for so long and with such fanaticism, for behaviours that aren’t particularly rare among powerful people, seems exceptional. The consensus here (with some exceptions) is that it’s mostly because she’s an ‘unlikeable’ woman who also committed the sin of being a possible, and then actual, Democratic presidential candidate. There is a saying that no one like to be sold but everyone likes to buy. Hillary’s vices of being paranoid, greedy, and power hungry are common among politicians but most are better at hiding it. Her husband is objectively a worse person but he is also charming, likable, and charismatic. It is the difference between being seduced and robbed by a charming con man and being mugged by a crack addict, both take your money but most people would hate the second experience much more. In short she is not charming enough to be as evil as she is. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/162 "2019-05-29T15:37:10Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Post #119 beat you to this cunning comment. Naturally I’m sure you understand that the same people who hate Clinton’s corruption, misogyny, lack of experience, greed, and paranoia view Trump’s as no big deal. > (And don’t say it goes both ways because I’m not buying that cow) Are you saying that the same people who hate Trump’s corruption, misogyny, lack of experience, greed and paranoia also hate Hillary? There is definitely some overlap but for the most part most Trump haters don’t hate Hillary too. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/163 "2019-05-29T15:39:42Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Are you saying that the same people who hate Trump’s corruption, misogyny, lack of experience, greed and paranoia also hate Hillary? There is definitely some overlap but for the most part most Trump haters don’t hate Hillary too. The point is that Trump supporters who hate Hillary very clearly don’t hate Hillary for corruption, misogyny, greed, or paranoia, since Trump very clearly demonstrates all those qualities as much or more so than Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/164 "2019-05-29T15:40:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Not really. A star supporter is saying women should vote for Hillary because she’s a woman, with Hillary right there on stage with her, clearly happy with it. It got some press at the time. You’re welcome to take the challenge of showing that Hillary felt “quite the opposite” to the way Albright did. “Felt”? This little aside began when a poster wrote that Clinton “ **flat stated** that women should vote for her because she was female” (my emphasis). The “opposite” of flatly stating something is…not stating it. The closest thing I can find is something that people jumped all over, which she said during an election campaign [interview](https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=clinton+ellen+interview+don%27t+vote+for+me+because+i&view=detail&mid=6591BAD5C45D5F55DABD6591BAD5C45D5F55DABD&FORM=VIRE) with Ellen Degeneres: “I’m not asking people to vote for me because I’m a woman, but I think if you vote for somebody on the merits, one of my merits is ‘I’m a woman’, and I think that makes a big difference in today’s world.” I stand by my earlier assertion that ‘spin has a nasty way of creating facts about Clinton that are only shades (sometimes very, very pale shades) of the truth.’ In searching for this clip, I found lots of conservative websites that took only a portion of the sentence to declare that Clinton told people to vote for her because she’s a woman (and one which slowed down the audio to make her sound demented). Which morphed into a belief that she ‘flatly stated’ such. If you want to argue otherwise, then you are continuing to twist and spin her sentiment (which she’s expounded upon elsewhere when she’s explained that ‘women’s issues like childcare’ are social issues that impact the larger society). I mean, was it an applause line? Yeah, it was. Was it done before a sympathetic audience? Yeah, it was. But can you imagine some other politician doing something as tawdry as using a platitude to garner cheers? Yeah, you can. Clinton does not get the benefit of the doubt - ever (I mean, people who are skeptical sometimes won’t even flatly deny that she’s had people killed.) Part of it is because she’s a woman. I think a larger part has been a multi-decade character assassination, such that everybody “knows” she’s shady. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/165 "2019-05-29T15:48:30Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > And the unrelenting hate, the loathing? Why do the things you describe account for hatred? A deep visceral hatred. To be fair, they have a deep visceral hatred for their political opponents. It is hard to tell sometimes, whether someone hates you because you are a woman, or because you disagree with them. Most people don’t hate someone or something because of a quality of that someone or something. They hate because they want to hate, and they latch on to whatever they can to justify it. > [@puddlegum](#): > > Are you saying that the same people who hate Trump’s corruption, misogyny, lack of experience, greed and paranoia also hate Hillary? There is definitely some overlap but for the most part most Trump haters don’t hate Hillary too. No, I think what he very clearly said was that those who hate Hillary Clinton support Trump. So, it would seem as though corruption, misogyny, lack of experience, greed and paranoia were deal breakers in regards to her, but are not in regards to him. If the people who hated Clinton for those reasons also hated Trump for those reasons, then that would be consistent. As they don’t, then there must be something else than those reasons for them to hate her. ---
**Author:** ![EarlGrayHot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e480ec/32.png) [@EarlGrayHot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EarlGrayHot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/166 "2019-05-29T16:05:19Z")
I remember when Bill Clinton asked his wife to work on the healthcare problems the country had and the bitching and moaning that started. People said it just wasn’t right to have “someone” (that meant a woman) who wasn’t elected working on it. As if the presidents never ask people to work for them who weren’t elected. Unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/167 "2019-05-29T16:09:54Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > “Felt”? This little aside began when a poster wrote that Clinton “ **flat stated** that women should vote for her because she was female” (my emphasis). The “opposite” of flatly stating something is…not stating it. That’s not how most people use the phrase “quite the opposite”. It makes your sentence redundant, ie you’re saying “she didn’t say that, in fact she didn’t say that.” Regardless, of course her political opponents exaggerated the point but given the Ellen moment, the Albright moment and the “I’m with her” slogan, I don’t think it’s a very very pale version of the truth to say she thought she should get votes because she is a woman. That’s not that horrible though and a pretty eye roll worthy reason to hate her. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/168 "2019-05-29T16:20:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That’s not how most people use the phrase “quite the opposite”. It makes your sentence redundant, ie you’re saying “she didn’t say that, in fact she didn’t say that.” Well, if it makes you feel better, I provided a cite where she did say, “I’m not asking people to vote for me because I’m a woman.” > [@](#): > > Regardless, of course her political opponents exaggerated the point but given the Ellen moment, the Albright moment and the “I’m with her” slogan, I don’t think it’s a very very pale version of the truth to say she thought she should get votes because she is a woman. Actually, her campaign slogan was “[Stronger Together](https://freebeacon.com/politics/hillary-clinton-stronger-together-campaign-slogan/)”. But did she try to garner the ‘female’ vote? Yes, she most certainly did. Elections are often about categorizing people in terms of demographics. Because it’s Clinton, though, that is deemed nefarious. > [@](#): > > That’s not that horrible though and a pretty eye roll worthy reason to hate her. Agreed. Which is why it’s weird when shit like this gets dragged out as reasons she’s hated. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/169 "2019-05-29T16:25:04Z")
There’s more than one campaign slogan. Wikipedia lists “Stronger together”, “I’m with her”, “Fighting for us” and “Love trumps hate”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/170 "2019-05-29T17:12:50Z")
> [@EarlGrayHot](#): > > I remember when Bill Clinton asked his wife to work on the healthcare problems the country had and the bitching and moaning that started. People said it just wasn’t right to have “someone” (that meant a woman) who wasn’t elected working on it. As if the presidents never ask people to work for them who weren’t elected. Unbelievable. Hillary had a public service job before she even married Bill. Then, at age 30, she co-founded Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families; the next year she was appointed the first female chair of the Legal Services Corporation. Contrast this with Jared Kushner, Peacemaker for the Middle East, about whom the best insider compliment is that he’s “not the brightest bulb on the tree.” It might be amusing to hear what Hillary haters have to say about Jared. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/171 "2019-05-29T18:47:16Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > As a Canadian and as someone who had never been terribly interested in such things, I didn’t use to pay a lot of attention to US politics. Even so, I could see that Hillary was truly hated by some. But I never thought to ask why. _Why_ was she so absolutely loathed by so many? Why did such deep hatred start? It was more than the usual political mudslinging, no? Interesting seeing this question coming from you of all people, when you started the following Pit thread about Hillary right here on these boards: > **[Hillary Rodham Clinton - how should I put this?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=88587)** > > Hillary Rodham Clinton, you are an insensitive sow. When every other politician has managed to put aside partisan considerations, you cling to parochial agendas. When your country is crying, you can’t, for a second, speak from the heart, show... > [@Hillary Rodham Clinton - how should I put this?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-rodham-clinton-how-should-i-put-this/82968/1): > > **Hillary Rodham Clinton, you are an insensitive sow**. When every other politician has managed to put aside partisan considerations, you cling to parochial agendas. When your country is crying, you can’t, for a second, speak from the heart, show emotion, or let down your guard. > > **Hillary Rodham Clinton, you are a bitch**. The other guests on Larry King (senators just like you) answered openly and candidly. They shared their hearts and grief with the World. You evaded the questions. You segued into vacuous political gibberish. You wouldn’t deign to answer honestly, at a time when honesty and candor are the balms for a wounded people. > > **Hillary Rodham Clinton, you are a condescending asshole**. When asked if there might be, perhaps, some way for Rudy Giuliani to be re-elected, did you not sense that you were really being asked to share in the joy of finding a hero in our midst, in the midst of the horror? How could you piss so hard and so long on one of the few bright spots in all this bleakness? How dare you. > > Hillary Rodham Clinton, you alone appeared sullen tonight during your President’s speech. Your begrudging, perfunctory applause was more suited to some pissed-off fourteen year old forced to go with their parents to the symphony, than one who aspires to lead millions. Leadership means making sacrifices, Hillary. It means putting the greater good above your own wants. > > **Hillary Rodham Clinton, I think I may be beginning to understand where Bill’s penchant for fine cigars and messy blow jobs came from. Intimate contact with another living, breathing, passionate human must have sure been tempting.** If you read the responses, even **Sam Stone** thought your bashing of Hillary was way over-the-top. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/172 "2019-05-29T19:12:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, I think what he very clearly said was that those who hate Hillary Clinton support Trump. So, it would seem as though corruption, misogyny, lack of experience, greed and paranoia were deal breakers in regards to her, but are not in regards to him. > > If the people who hated Clinton for those reasons also hated Trump for those reasons, then that would be consistent. As they don’t, then there must be something else than those reasons for them to hate her. Likewise people who hate Trump for those things should hate Hillary if they are consistent. Muppet news flash: people are not consistent. People are always going to have bad feelings about the other teams political leaders but the hate Hillary and Trump get is much greater than most other politicians. The reason is that they are worse than other politicians. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/173 "2019-05-29T19:50:17Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Likewise people who hate Trump for those things should hate Hillary if they are consistent. Muppet news flash: people are not consistent. I do not agree that Hillary Clinton is nearly of the same kind nor degree of corruption as Trump. > [@](#): > > People are always going to have bad feelings about the other teams political leaders but the hate Hillary and Trump get is much greater than most other politicians. The reason is that they are worse than other politicians. In Trump’s case, this is objectively true, in Clinton’s it is more a matter of people believing far more about her than is actually true. For instance, when I was over at my parents’ house this holiday weekend, my mother brought up the Clintons’ murder of Vince Foster. I don’t know where it went from there, as, by my covenant with them, they bring up politics, and I stand up and walk out, but she did seem to be rather incensed by this. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/174 "2019-05-29T20:55:23Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > Interesting seeing this question coming from you of all people, when you started the following Pit thread about Hillary right here on these boards: > > [Hillary Rodham Clinton - how should I put this? - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=88587) > If you read the responses, even **Sam Stone** thought your bashing of Hillary was way over-the-top. Good for you that you remembered and that you chose to mention it from 18 years ago (in the gloom of 9/11). I, too, remembered it but after I posted this OP. Indeed, part of my motivation for asking where the hate comes from was because I, myself, have changed. I believe I’ve seen through what I used to mostly ignore but sometime parroted. I’ve been much more aware lately. Not quite woke, but just napping. (I changed regarding saturated fats.) ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/175 "2019-05-30T15:34:03Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > Interesting seeing this question coming from you of all people, when you started the following Pit thread about Hillary right here on these boards: > > [Hillary Rodham Clinton - how should I put this? - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=88587) > If you read the responses, even **Sam Stone** thought your bashing of Hillary was way over-the-top. By the way, since I posted my screed on Hillary on September 21, 2001, I’ve become fond of the following quote (ostensibly uttered by John Maynard Keynes): > [@Keynes](#): > > When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind. What Do You Do, Sir? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/176 "2019-05-30T16:02:05Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > It would be interesting to learn if **Bone** would care to name a man in politics with virtually the same policy positions as Mrs. Clinton’s. > > And if he finds that man to be objectionable to an equivalent degree as he finds Mrs. Clinton to be. > > ETA: And to assess the general Hillary-hating public’s expressed opinion of him. > [@Bone](#): > > Bloomberg comes to mind. If not for him, most gun control groups would have floundered and he is probably the single most influential person in the gun control movement. So yeah, fuck that guy. Thank you for your response. To impose upon your generous nature once again, may I ask you for your observations about how widespread Bloomberg-hatred is, and to speculate on the reason(s) for any disparity you may have noted between that and Hillary-hatred? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/177 "2019-05-30T18:46:12Z")
Nepotism?? Trumpists are “happy their man won because of Clinton ‘nepotism’” ?? :eek: > [@septimus](#): > > Contrast this with Jared Kushner, Peacemaker for the Middle East, about whom the best insider compliment is that he’s “not the brightest bulb on the tree.” > > It might be amusing to hear what Hillary haters have to say about Jared. I’m too lazy to start my own thread. Here are my two poll questions: (1) is “I’m glad Hillary didn’t win” in the context of the 2016 election almost the equivalent of “I’m glad Trump won” ? (a) Yes. (b) Close enough. Pretending there’s a significant difference is a path to obfuscation (c) Not sure. (d) No. (2) Please comment on Jared, as requested in the quote above. (a) I am not a Hillary despiser, so am under no obligation to write the 75-word essay. (b) Sure, I’m a Hillary hater but I hate Jared too … I hate most of them. (c) Attached is a 75-word essay, my opinion on the fitness and/or morals of the Trump family. (d) Even 75 words is too much for lazy me. :o Here are 20 words. (Thanks in advance for your responses. **Don’t make me open a Poll thread.** :eek: I would like to hear Clinton-Bloomberg comparisons from our conservatives; but why not Hillary-Jared comparisons as well? Note that Jared already has a post higher than any post Hillary had when huge animosity was building ) ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/178 "2019-05-30T19:19:09Z")
I can’t really put a finger on it but I’m not a huge fan of H.R.C.'s either (I wasn’t in 2016 and I’m still not). Or maybe it’s that there are _so many_ different things about her that I don’t like that I just don’t feel like reviewing them in my head and summarizing them here. But if someone like _me_ could find so many reasons to not vote for Bill Clinton’s spouse, imagine how easy it must’ve been for people who REALLY didn’t like her to vote for that other “person.” (I use the term “person” _very_ loosely when referencing he of the lying gob [thanks, _Jeopardy!_] and the horrible hair and personality who currently occupies the W.H.) ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550/179 "2019-05-30T19:22:42Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Nepotism?? Trumpists are “happy their man won because of Clinton ‘nepotism’” ?? :eek: > > I’m too lazy to start my own thread. Here are my two poll questions: > > (1) is “I’m glad Hillary didn’t win” in the context of the 2016 election almost the equivalent of “I’m glad Trump won” ? > (a) Yes. > (b) Close enough. Pretending there’s a significant difference is a path to obfuscation > (c) Not sure. > (d) No. > > (2) Please comment on Jared, as requested in the quote above. > (a) I am not a Hillary despiser, so am under no obligation to write the 75-word essay. > (b) Sure, I’m a Hillary hater but I hate Jared too … I hate most of them. > (c) Attached is a 75-word essay, my opinion on the fitness and/or morals of the Trump family. > (d) Even 75 words is too much for lazy me. :o Here are 20 words. > > (Thanks in advance for your responses. **Don’t make me open a Poll thread.** :eek: I would like to hear Clinton-Bloomberg comparisons from our conservatives; but why not Hillary-Jared comparisons as well? Note that Jared already has a post higher than any post Hillary had when huge animosity was building ) 1. No. But only because what voting for that other “person”\* got us is worse. So, so much worse (in my opinion. But I like to think that many, many others on the SDMB share that opinion with me). \*See above [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-for-hillary-from-where-and-why/834550.md?page=8)