# Hate Speech In Ali RIP Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 6, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654 "2016-06-06T14:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/21 "2016-06-07T15:36:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And if quoting someone else saying n\*gger is hate speech - No one has said that any use of the word nigger is hate speech. The context is significant. And no evidence has been produced that **Little Pig** remark was an actual quote. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/22 "2016-06-07T15:48:54Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Either your friend heard a racial epithet on television, your friend heard a racial epithet on the radio,…, or he misremembered. I find the first 2 unlikely. > I am unimpressed with this second-hand report. This smells like an urban myth. It’s definitely not an urban myth, because the guy told me he heard it himself and he wouldn’t lie about it. Only question is whether he misremembered, which is something else. I incline to doubt it. As above, he was talking about something which was fairly recent at the time. And I don’t get the apparent basis for your objection. Even today, people - especially African Americans - still use the term on air when discussing the attitudes of other people, as Ali was doing in this instance. And standards would have been looser yet back when this was said, about 30-35 years ago. Of course, anything is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/23 "2016-06-07T16:33:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > No one has said that any use of the word nigger is hate speech. **Idle Thoughts** warned him for (among other things) hate speech. Was there another word that triggered the warning? > [@](#): > > The context is significant. The context in this case was that he previously used the word Negro, and insulted Mississippi, which is mostly black, even though it isn’t. But of course, no one said that either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/24 "2016-06-07T16:39:34Z")
FWIW at 5min 23 secs Ali says “nigger” referring to himself multiple times on TV in 1974 : [Mike Douglas Show w/Sly Stone & Muhammad Ali 1974 (Part 4 of 4) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6ESuUB7_zA) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/25 "2016-06-07T16:50:35Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > This might be the most pathetic warning in the history of the SDMB. > > Firstly, it’s pretty clear that despite IW’s later attempts to walk it back, the quoted racist term was a big part of the warning - that’s the first thing IW mentioned. Second, the notion that it was either threadshitting or trolling is highly dubious IMHO. And the attempt to tease some racist connotations out a criticism aimed at a state is laughable. (I can’t figure out the context of the other “… and he’s a Negro” quote.) > > I’m curious as to whether IW’s claim that L\_P was “_modded and warned over using hate speech terms at least three times before_” is true altogether, but I highly doubt it. > > [I have no idea if L\_P’s quote is accurate. What I can say is that years ago (when Ali was still active) a friend of mine told me he had seen/heard an interview with Ali. Ali was making the point that a lot of his act was showmanship, and he said that he said a lot of outrageous things so that people will “come out to see the talkin’ nigger fight”.] I’m still not seeing the hate speech thing, but it’s definitely thread shitting. You don’t pop into a RIP thread and talk shit about the deceased-- that has clearly been established as thread shitting. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/26 "2016-06-07T17:04:38Z")
To add to my prior post, I looked around a bit and while I can’t find the exact quote my friend heard, I think it’s extremely likely it was an accurate one. In addition to Ali commonly using “nigger” when discussing (other people’s perceptions of) himself, he also repeatedly expressed the concept that my friend heard: that he trash talked a lot so that people would root for him to get shut up, but they would come out to see him. See e.g. > **[Poor Butterfly: The Muhammad Ali Story](https://mauryzlevy.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/poor-butterfly/)** > > \[Maury Z. Levy: author’s note: In 1975, Muhammad Ali had been the king of the world for a long time. He was always surrounded by press people fighting for interviews. He talked a lot, but never let… [http://www.alex-haley.com/alex\_haley\_cassius\_clay\_interview.htm](http://www.alex-haley.com/alex_haley_cassius_clay_interview.htm) > **[Three heavyweight encounters: when Ali met Parkinson](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jun/05/ali-parkinson-heavyweight-encounters-bbc-chatshow)** > > The unforgettable interviews the champion gave to the BBC talkshow are landmarks in the rise – and, ultimately, fall – of his career In sum, the language was consistent, the sentiment definitely his, likely a true story. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m still not seeing the hate speech thing, but it’s definitely thread shitting. You don’t pop into a RIP thread and talk shit about the deceased-- that has clearly been established as thread shitting. I wouldn’t have thought of that as a “RIP thread”. I thought those were threads in MPSIMS, specifically dedicated to RIPing. This was a thread in the Sports forum, and I would have thought any sort of remembrances of Ali were part of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/27 "2016-06-07T17:19:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Idle Thoughts** warned him for (among other things) hate speech. Was there another word that triggered the warning? > > The context in this case was that he previously used the word Negro, and insulted Mississippi, which is mostly black, even though it isn’t. > > But of course, no one said that either. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t even know why I bother responding your posts. I probably should just ignore them, since you will insist on “not understanding” the responses regardless of what I say. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/28 "2016-06-07T18:08:17Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I wouldn’t have thought of that as a “RIP thread”. I thought those were threads in MPSIMS, specifically dedicated to RIPing. This was a thread in the Sports forum, and I would have thought any sort of remembrances of Ali were part of the thread. Well, I guess now you know! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/29 "2016-06-07T18:12:22Z")
Not really. I don’t think that’s what it was really about. What do you think of the comments in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=787979)? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/30 "2016-06-07T18:27:55Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not really. I don’t think that’s what it was really about. > > What do you think of the comments in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=787979)? I’m not going to read a whole thread searching for “something”. If you have a specific post, point it out, do so. The fact that a particular RIP thread was not in MPSISMs doesn’t make any difference, if you ask me. The first rule of RIP threads is you don’t shit all over RIP threads. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/31 "2016-06-07T18:38:51Z")
That thread actually is in MPSIMS, and featured a lot of negative comments about Rob Ford in a thread announcing his death. Read it or don’t. I am skeptical as to whether this alleged rule is as well-established as you claim. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/32 "2016-06-07T18:45:40Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That thread actually is in MPSIMS, and featured a lot of negative comments about Rob Ford in a thread announcing his death. > > Read it or don’t. I am skeptical as to whether this alleged rule is as well-established as you claim. Lots of posts don’t get mod’ed because the mods never see them. There have been plenty of warnings for thread shitting in RIP threads, and it’s been discussed in this forum before. Maybe you missed that discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/33 "2016-06-07T18:49:38Z")
Even if that’s true, any rule which is not contained in the “official” rules sticky notes and which is frequently violated without consequence should not result in a warning. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/34 "2016-06-07T18:56:20Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Even if that’s true, any rule which is not contained in the “official” rules sticky notes and which is frequently violated without consequence should not result in a warning. Do not thread shit is an official rule. Read [this ATMB thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=782444&highlight=threadshitting). Note: > [@Moderator](#): > > I would say you were fortunate not to get a warning for threadshitting. > > Time and place. > [@Moderator](#): > > This is a memorial thread for those who died in the Challenger crash. You’re free to open a thread memorializing those who died in car crashes that day if it’s that sincerely meaningful to you, but keep it out of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/35 "2016-06-07T19:02:48Z")
Threadshitting is against the rules, but what exactly constitutes threadshitting is not always clear. The thread you cite was explicitly started as a memorial thread, and in that context saying “why should we memorialize those people?” is clearly threadshitting, by definition. In this case, someone started a thread to announce that someone had died, and it’s unclear that anything other than adulation is the same. Especially as there’s precedent otherwise, as above. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/36 "2016-06-07T19:07:25Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Threadshitting is against the rules, but what exactly constitutes threadshitting is not always clear. > > The thread you cite was explicitly started as a memorial thread, and in that context saying “why should we memorialize those people?” is clearly threadshitting, by definition. > > In this case, someone started a thread to announce that someone had died, and it’s unclear that anything other than adulation is the same. Especially as there’s precedent otherwise, as above. Yes. I mean if you _have_ to say something, like about a celebrities drug use, makes sure it’s at least worded like “It’s a shame that their drug use ended a brilliant career so early”- and even that needs to be used carefully. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/37 "2016-06-07T19:07:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Threadshitting is against the rules, but what exactly constitutes threadshitting is not always clear. > > The thread you cite was explicitly started as a memorial thread, and in that context saying “why should we memorialize those people?” is clearly threads hitting, by definition. > > In this case, someone started a thread to announce that someone had died, and it’s unclear that anything other than adulation is the same. It was clearly an RIP thread. > [@](#): > > Especially as there’s precedent otherwise, as above. And yet you seem unwilling to quote these offending posts… ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/38 "2016-06-07T19:47:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > And I don’t get the apparent basis for your objection. Even today, people - especially African Americans - still use the term on air when discussing the attitudes of other people, as Ali was doing in this instance. And standards would have been looser yet back when this was said, about 30-35 years ago. My contention was falsified by mistymage’s link. On the Mike Douglas show, Ali used the N-word and also “Hell”. I would have assumed that curse words would have been bleeped out during a daytime show. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/39 "2016-06-07T20:43:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I don’t even know why I bother responding your posts. If you aren’t going to say anything of substance, I don’t know either. > [@](#): > > I probably should just ignore them, since you will insist on “not understanding” the responses regardless of what I say. **Little\_Pig** was warned earlier for posting in such a way to suggest that he has problems with places where the majority of people are black, like Mississippi, which is not majority-black. And that is how we know that he has problems with places that are majority-black - because he has problems with places that aren’t. What’s not to understand? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654/40 "2016-06-07T21:26:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s definitely not an urban myth, because the guy told me he heard it himself and he wouldn’t lie about it. Classic [FOAF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_legend). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hate-speech-in-ali-rip-thread/756654.md?page=3)