# Hated movies or flops that were not BAD films **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943 "2017-04-21T20:35:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tio\_Gringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@Tio\_Gringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tio_Gringo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/1 "2017-04-21T20:35:06Z")
In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=824384)thread discussing if film makers involved in making bad movies are aware of that fact, or think they are making a quality product, **ZipperJJ** throws some hate on 1998’s _Godzilla_. **ZipperJJ** is certainly not alone in his hate of the movie. Now while not a GREAT movie, I think it is an OK film for what it is - namely a mindless monster flick. Broderick, Azeria, Reno, et al. did a good job acting and the special effects where good for the time. In a similar vein, Schwarzenegger’s 1993 _Last Action Hero_ and Costner’s 1995 _Waterworld_ are panned for being flops, but I think they are both watchable and enjoyable films (esp _Last Action Hero_). What are some additional films that are flops and/or popularly hated that you think are not THAT bad? ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/2 "2017-04-21T20:48:46Z")
Office Space Dazed and Confused A Christmas Story The Thing Blade Runner The Big Lebowski … all considered flops on their initial box office release. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/3 "2017-04-21T20:59:27Z")
_It’s a Wonderful Life_ was a flop when it was first released and now it’s pretty much the iconic Christmas movie. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/4 "2017-04-21T21:03:30Z")
> [@Tio\_Gringo](#): > > In a similar vein, Schwarzenegger’s 1993 _Last Action Hero_ and Costner’s 1995 _Waterworld_ are panned for being flops, but I think they are both watchable and enjoyable films (esp _Last Action Hero_). > > What are some additional films that are flops and/or popularly hated that you think are not THAT bad? Waterworld? I cant watch it, it makes no sense at all. Where did all that water come from? Why does he recycle pee with a ocean full of water right there? (yes, it may be too salty to drink, but it’s easier to distil than urine). Why is dirt so valued- now one had heard of hydroponics? Why does he trade a jar of dirt for- wait for it- a plant in dirt. Where’d they get cigs that lasted a century? I nominate Star wars I, II, III. Not bad, but terrible disappointments for fans, thus hated. Starship Troopers. Pretend it is just a coincidence that the name is the same as a beloved book, then it’s not half bad. Same with the Arnie Conan films. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/5 "2017-04-21T21:13:44Z")
John Carter, which applies to my theory that anything with Mark Strong as a bad guy is pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/6 "2017-04-21T21:16:38Z")
Dutch Joe vs. the Volcano Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within North ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/7 "2017-04-21T21:21:12Z")
They’d signed Billy Campbell and Jennifer Connelly for a sequel to THE ROCKETEER before it hit theaters and flopped so hard that those plans got scrapped. But they were perfect for their roles – as was Paul Sorvino, as the mob boss; and so was Timothy Dalton, as the Errol-Flynn-type movie star; and so was Terry O’Quinn, as Howard Hughes; and so was Alan Arkin, as the eccentric mechanic. And when, twenty years later, Joe Johnston did CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE FIRST AVENGER, success. But this one didn’t click then, even though it should’ve. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/8 "2017-04-21T21:23:01Z")
_Exit to Eden._ It’s basically a chick movie, but with enough gratuitous nudity that guys can enjoy it, too. Plus, it has Dan Ackroyd, and Rosie O’Donnell, back when she was still funny. _Lifeforce,_ starring Mathilda May’s breasts, and a bunch of British actors. (Oh, yeah, and one gratuitous American, who manages to make Raymond Burr’s contributions to _Godzilla_ look vital to the story.) OK, compared to _Star Wars_, it was made on a shoestring budget. But, by Golan-Globus standards, it had a huge budget. The special effects were not as good as a Lucasfilm production, but for 1985, they were not bad. > [@](#): > > from [Lifeforce (film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeforce_(film)) > Colin Wilson was unhappy with the way the film turned out. He wrote of it, “John Fowles had once told me that the film of The Magus was the worst movie ever made. After seeing Lifeforce I sent him a postcard telling him that I had gone one better.”[12] Dude, you wrote a novel titled _Space Vampires_, and you sold the movie rights to Golan-Globus. What the @#$$ were you expecting? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/9 "2017-04-21T21:30:24Z")
Waterworld had huge cost over-runs and production problems, and looked to be a disaster for the studio (though I think they eventually broke even on it), so stories about it being a financial disaster kind of got wrapped up in the films over-all reputation. It also didn’t help that it was sort of the beginning of a big drop in Kevin Costners career either, so it gets tied in peoples minds to his falling fortunes. It’s not the greatest movie ever, but its a fun sci-fi action movie. It certainly doesn’t deserve its frequent inclusion in lists of worst movie ever. Even its budget (175 million in 1995 dollars) doesn’t seem that inflated by the standard of current sci-fi movies. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/10 "2017-04-21T21:31:13Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Dutch > Joe vs. the Volcano > Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within > North Dutch was really underappreciated, I thought. Only thing I ever saw Al Bundy in besides MWC until Modern Family. I’ll nominate The Burbs, which someone in another thread made out to be the worst movie ever. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/11 "2017-04-21T21:34:15Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > They’d signed Billy Campbell and Jennifer Connelly for a sequel to THE ROCKETEER before it hit theaters and flopped so hard that those plans got scrapped. > > But they were perfect for their roles – as was Paul Sorvino, as the mob boss; and so was Timothy Dalton, as the Errol-Flynn-type movie star; and so was Terry O’Quinn, as Howard Hughes; and so was Alan Arkin, as the eccentric mechanic. And when, twenty years later, Joe Johnston did CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE FIRST AVENGER, success. > > But this one didn’t click then, even though it should’ve. The Rocketeer is awesome! It did it all right. I’m not sure where you could go with a sequel, but it works nicely as a standalone. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/12 "2017-04-21T21:55:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > They’d signed Billy Campbell and Jennifer Connelly for a sequel to THE ROCKETEER before it hit theaters and flopped so hard that those plans got scrapped. > But they were perfect for their roles – as was Paul Sorvino, as the mob boss; and so was Timothy Dalton, as the Errol-Flynn-type movie star; and so was Terry O’Quinn, as Howard Hughes; and so was Alan Arkin, as the eccentric mechanic. And when, twenty years later, Joe Johnston did CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE FIRST AVENGER, success. > But this one didn’t click then, even though it should’ve. Indeed. For me, **Rocketeer** is still _the_ best comic-book film. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The Rocketeer is awesome! It did it all right. > I’m not sure where you could go with a sequel, but it works nicely as a standalone. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/13 "2017-04-21T22:11:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > … > I nominate Star wars I, II, III. Not bad, but terrible disappointments for fans, thus hated. > > Starship Troopers. Pretend it is just a coincidence that the name is the same as a beloved book, then it’s not half bad. Same with the Arnie Conan films. I disagree strongly on Star Wars I-III, I am not a Star Wars fan and I think I & II are 2 truly terrible movies and III was only bad. Now with Starship Troopers, I am a Heinlein fanatic, currently re-reading Stranger, own 95% of the books and all that were published before he died. The movie shares a title and a few names and basic ideas with the classic book but is not at all the book of the movie. Despite all this, it is a fun movie. > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > John Carter, which applies to my theory that anything with Mark Strong as a bad guy is pretty good. I’m a John Carter of Mars fan, this movie was garbage across the board. Not just a mismanaged bloated bomb but a truly bad movie without pacing, writing or acting. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > They’d signed Billy Campbell and Jennifer Connelly for a sequel to THE ROCKETEER before it hit theaters and flopped so hard that those plans got scrapped. > > But they were perfect for their roles – as was Paul Sorvino, as the mob boss; and so was Timothy Dalton, as the Errol-Flynn-type movie star; and so was Terry O’Quinn, as Howard Hughes; and so was Alan Arkin, as the eccentric mechanic. And when, twenty years later, Joe Johnston did CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE FIRST AVENGER, success. > > But this one didn’t click then, even though it should’ve. The Rocketeer is an excellent movie. I really enjoyed it, did not even know it was a comic book movie when I saw it, just a fun, vaguely Indiana Jones-like throwback adventure movie. I’ll add **The Hudsucker Proxy** to the growing list. This movie did not fare well and I think it is a perfect movie. I love the screwball comedy aspects, the writing, the dialogue and that [Jennifer Jason Leigh](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000492/?ref_=tt_cl_t2) did a rapid fire clipped delivery of her lines almost worthy of Katherine the Great or Barbara Stanwyck. ---
**Author:** ![Pixel\_Dent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Pixel\_Dent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixel_Dent)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/14 "2017-04-21T22:35:45Z")
For years I never saw Heaven’s Gate because it was the punch line of so many jokes about how it was so bad it destroyed a studio (United Artists). When I finally saw it a few years ago I thought it was a flawed but overall very strong movie and quite enjoyed it. It was an epic and beautiful movie that suffered from some story issues. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/15 "2017-04-21T22:42:52Z")
> [@Tio\_Gringo](#): > > In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=824384)thread discussing if film makers involved in making bad movies are aware of that fact, or think they are making a quality product, **ZipperJJ** throws some hate on 1998’s _Godzilla_. **ZipperJJ** is certainly not alone in his hate of the movie. Now while not a GREAT movie, I think it is an OK film for what it is - namely a mindless monster flick. Broderick, Azeria, Reno, et al. did a good job acting and the special effects where good for the time. True enough. Personally, I think the movie would go over a lot better if they just called the monster something else. And I _also_ rather liked John Carter, aside from some quibbles. (Like the marketing, or them not filming—or at least digitally color-correcting—someplace where the dirt was actually _red_, or the River Iss being completely lackluster.) I’d add more movies to the list, but I’m worried about retreading ground I’ve covered online before. Or run into quandary over how I can justify or even properly _define_ “good” when I’d be operating well in the realm of the subjective. Or just get really depressed when I start naming most of the films I really liked from the last twenty years. Oh, and Jar-Jar gets way more crap than he deserves. And “Across the Stars” is a beautiful piece of music. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/16 "2017-04-21T23:08:02Z")
**Hudson Hawk** - I didn’t love Andie Macdowell, but the movie was fun **Labyrinth** - I loved it, but it wasn’t seen as a hit when it came oh…if I remember right? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/17 "2017-04-21T23:16:52Z")
Speed Racer. Great visuals, the action/races were cool, the plot made sense and was interesting, cool cars, and Christina Ricci. I like this movie very much, but it bombed pretty hard. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/18 "2017-04-21T23:18:57Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > **Hudson Hawk** - I didn’t love Andie Macdowell, but the movie was fun > > **Labyrinth** - I loved it, but it wasn’t seen as a hit when it came oh…if I remember right? **Hudson Hawk** is one I agree with, I like it but most critics disliked it and it did bomb. **Labyrinth** did lackluster business, taking home only about 1/2 its budget in the US but between foreign box and video sales it did fine. Critically it was a mixed bag but really does not qualify as a flop or hated. Personally I love the movie, I think it is basically made of awesome and a 9 out 10. The IMDB rating is 7.4 which is very good. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/19 "2017-04-21T23:30:29Z")
**the Hudsucker Proxy** and **Joe vs the Volcano** were already mentioned so i’ll add **Falling Down** with Michael Douglas. > **[Falling Down](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_Down)** > > Falling Down is a 1993 American psychological thriller film directed by Joel Schumacher, written by Ebbe Roe Smith and released by Warner Bros. in the United States on February 26, 1993. > The film stars Michael Douglas as William Foster, a divorced and unemployed former defense engineer. It centers on Foster's trek across the city of Los Angeles as he attempts to reach the house of his estranged ex-wife in time for his daughter's birthday. Along the way, a series of encounters, both trivial an... it seemed to do ok at the box office and the reviews were mixed, leaning toward the positive. but, whenever i mention it, noone seems to remember seeing it. i think its Douglas’ best performance of his career. [QUOTE=Peter Travers of Rolling Stone] There’s no denying the power of the tale or of Douglas’s riveting performance - his best and riskiest since Wall Street. Douglas neither demonizes nor canonizes this flawed character. Marching across a violent urban landscape toward an illusory home, this shattered Everyman is never less than real… “I’m the bad guy?” he asks in disbelief. Douglas speaks the line with a searing poignancy that illuminates uncomfortable truths without excusing the character. Schumacher could have exploited those tabloid headlines about solid citizens going berserk. Instead, the timely, gripping Falling Down puts a human face on a cold statistic and then dares us to look away. [/QUOTE] and i has Robert Duvall, so bonus! mc ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943/20 "2017-04-21T23:34:51Z")
- Ishtar\* A decent but flawed comedy with some great sequences. But it had a very big budget (for its time; adjusted for inflation, it was up near _Waterworld_) , with no spectacle. Most critics reviewed the price tag, nit the movie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hated-movies-or-flops-that-were-not-bad-films/784943.md?page=2)