# "Hateful chatter behind the veil" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714 "2006-06-30T02:36:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/21 "2006-06-30T19:43:35Z")
[QUOTE=Barbarian] I don’t understand why that article isn’t on the _front frigging page_ of the Globe’s website! But as it is, I’m glad that hate-spewing cunts who want their husbands to wage war against the country they live in will soon be hunted down by [these guys](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060630.wmounties30/BNStory/National/home). [/QUOTE] Do you really not understand why this barely qualifies as news? ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/22 "2006-07-01T02:36:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, one more reason it should be easier to deport non-citizens. What will the clause say? Non-citizens who don’t agree with the government will be deported? ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/23 "2006-07-01T02:41:39Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] If you’re a guest here, don’t piss on the carpet. [/QUOTE] I so very much love this line. May I borrow it? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/24 "2006-07-01T02:43:27Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pacos] What will the clause say? Non-citizens who don’t agree with the government will be deported? [/QUOTE] No, I think something along the lines of “loudmouth cunts who despise the country that has given them sanctuary shall get their sorry asses deported at our earliest convinience” should about cover it. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/25 "2006-07-01T02:51:22Z")
I’d be interested in seeing your proposed definitions for “loudmouthed cunts” and “despise the country”. Can a person joke about how much they hate Canada? Would that make them a loudmouthed cunt? What if I complain about how long the mail takes to arrive? Is that despising the country? Isn’t the ambiguity that starts cropping up when you begin curtailing freedom of speech fun? ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/26 "2006-07-01T03:06:09Z")
[QUOTE=astro] Wow… I can understand US hatery by Islamic fundies, as we’re kind of rough round the edges, can be arrogant to newcomers and don’t really give a shit what they think which drives them batshit, but hating _Canada_ … that’s… that’s like hating puppies or something. [/QUOTE] Hating Canada? That’s like hating toast! How can have a strong opinion in any direction? -Jon Stewart It figures that in any reasonably sized grouping of people there’s be a couple malcontents who hate everything about, well, everything. That’s life. Not seeing the big news story here, but maybe I’m just being a malcontent. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/27 "2006-07-01T03:17:24Z")
[QUOTE=Wolfian] in any reasonably sized grouping of people there’s be a couple malcontents who hate everything about, well, everything. [/QUOTE] Fucking Canada! Thinks it’s so big. _Well that’s just Mercator. MERCATOR! MERCATOR!_ ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/28 "2006-07-01T03:18:32Z")
[QUOTE=Slithy Tove] _Well that’s just Mercator. MERCATOR! MERCATOR!_ [/QUOTE] Did you call me? No? Sorry, it sounded like you did. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/29 "2006-07-01T05:07:34Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pacos] I’d be interested in seeing your proposed definitions for “loudmouthed cunts” and “despise the country”. Can a person joke about how much they hate Canada? Would that make them a loudmouthed cunt? What if I complain about how long the mail takes to arrive? Is that despising the country? Isn’t the ambiguity that starts cropping up when you begin curtailing freedom of speech fun? [/QUOTE] Deport them for being criminals after convicting them for any number of offences, such as: [ul]Public incitement of hatred (already on the books)[/ul] [ul]Advocating genocide (already on the books)[/ul] [ul]Instructing a person to carry out a terrorist act or activity (pending law)[/ul] [ul]Harbouring a terrorist (pending law)[/ul] [ul]Causing mischief motivated by bias, prejudice or hate (pending law)[/ul] Lama Pacos, the law in Canada is able to differentiate between making jokes and making bombs, or between complaining about mail delays and urging jihads. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/30 "2006-07-01T05:11:56Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pacos] What will the clause say? Non-citizens who don’t agree with the government will be deported? [/QUOTE] Lama Pacos, there is a very great difference between disagreeing with the government, and promoting the killing of Canadians. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/31 "2006-07-01T05:21:15Z")
[QUOTE=astro] Wow… I can understand US hatery by Islamic fundies, as we’re kind of rough round the edges, can be arrogant to newcomers and don’t really give a shit what they think which drives them batshit, but hating _Canada_ … that’s… that’s like hating puppies or something. [/QUOTE] Canada is going head to head against the Taliban: [http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=d5d31fab-7a40-4231-af57-f73ca26581ab&k=19610](http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=d5d31fab-7a40-4231-af57-f73ca26581ab&k=19610) [http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view\_news\_e.asp?id=1703](http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1703) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/32 "2006-07-01T05:53:43Z")
54º40’ or fight! ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/33 "2006-07-01T11:47:29Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Do you really not understand why this barely qualifies as news? [/QUOTE] Why no, I have absolutely no idea what qualifies as news, even after working in this industry for a decade. _No clue at all_. :rolleyes: It’s not like Canadians care about terrorists in their midst or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/34 "2006-07-01T13:11:53Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] Did you call me? No? Sorry, it sounded like you did. [/QUOTE] As a father, you should know better by now. That call was for your **daughter**. The one lurking in Canada’s capital! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/35 "2006-07-01T13:51:53Z")
[QUOTE=NurseCarmen] A government’s first responsibility is to it’s citizens. I don’t foresee too big of an outcry if the whole lot of them is deported if they are not citizens. [/QUOTE] Only in the United States is that a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/36 "2006-07-01T17:17:35Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pacos] I’d be interested in seeing your proposed definitions for “loudmouthed cunts” and “despise the country”. Can a person joke about how much they hate Canada? Would that make them a loudmouthed cunt? What if I complain about how long the mail takes to arrive? Is that despising the country? Isn’t the ambiguity that starts cropping up when you begin curtailing freedom of speech fun? [/QUOTE] Again, nobody is suggesting curtailing freedom of speech. Say what you will. I have no problem with these people saying what they like. They can continue saying it even as they’re led onto the plane to take them back to the countries they apparently miss so much. **You do not have any right to be here if you’re not a citizen.** Whether or not you’re permitted to be here as a non-citizen is a matter of national policy, not civil rights. I think it’s a perfectly reasonable policy position to say that people advocating violence against other Canadians are perhaps not the sort of people who should be permitted to stay. We do have courts and legal systems in this country. I don’t see it as being all that hard to distinguish between those who criticize the government and those who hate other Canadians and advocate making war on Canada. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/37 "2006-07-01T18:42:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] Does anybody else have unwanted images of poor little Janet Jackson being abused on _Good Times_ ca. 1977? [/QUOTE] :laughing so hard that I’m pissing my pants: ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/38 "2006-07-04T06:00:16Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] Lama Pacos, the law in Canada is able to differentiate between making jokes and making bombs, or between complaining about mail delays and urging jihads. [/QUOTE] Is this the same law that is theoretically able to distinguish between books about [gay and lesbian sex, and obscene pornography](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Sisters_Book_and_Art_Emporium_v._Canada_%28Minister_of_Justice%29)? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/39 "2006-07-04T13:37:06Z")
[QUOTE=matt\_mcl] Is this the same law that is theoretically able to distinguish between books about [gay and lesbian sex, and obscene pornography](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Sisters_Book_and_Art_Emporium_v._Canada_%28Minister_of_Justice%29)? [/QUOTE] Matt, there is a very great difference between a blow-job and blowing people up. I am confident that our legal system can tell the one from another. As you are well aware, the gay bookstore matter dealt with the intertwining of the persecution of gays with the protection of society from obscenity. It was decided that blue laws should apply equally, without specific persecution of gays. I must assume, then, that your concern lies with the impingement of freedom of expression. Obscenity is determined by a community standard. There is significant diversity of opinion in Canada as to what constitutes obscenity with regard to sexuality. That naturally leads to contentious litigation and even split decisions. When it comes to blowing people up, the community standard does not apply, and even if it did, there is no significant diversity of opinion in Canada as to whether one should be permitted to blow people up. I put it to you: should there be any sanction against a person in Canada who counsels others’ to blow-up Canadians, and if so, what should that sanction be and who should weigh the facts to determine if the sanction should apply? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714/40 "2006-07-04T14:26:51Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] As you are well aware, the gay bookstore matter dealt with the intertwining of the persecution of gays with the protection of society from obscenity. It was decided that blue laws should apply equally, without specific persecution of gays. I must assume, then, that your concern lies with the impingement of freedom of expression. [/QUOTE] No, my problem is with the continuing harassment of gay and lesbian bookstores by Canada Customs despite the rulings, and the impotence (or unwillingness) of the government and courts to put a stop to it once and for all. Essentially, every time a book of theirs is stopped, Little Sister’s has to go to court to get that shipment, and only that shipment, released. All this because _Butler_ assumed that it was okay to let Canada Customs tell the difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hateful-chatter-behind-the-veil/362714.md?page=3)