# Hating on Star Trek: The Next Generation **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871 "2014-06-02T22:45:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/101 "2016-09-15T21:42:20Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > I think of it in terms of the early pioneers. Those wagon trains included families with kids, all vulnerable to disease, accidents, attacks by Indians, and so on. The original high concept and pitch title of _Star Trek_ was literally “Wagon Train to the Stars”. So the parallel was quite explicit. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/102 "2016-09-15T21:53:44Z")
Wagon trains carried settlers to populate new lands. The naval vessels of that or any other day did not. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/103 "2016-09-15T21:59:40Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Because if any had been killed, Picard would have thrown a party. Picard was smart. He didn’t want children on board to begin with. Rhetorical question: Learning to ride a bike or traveling on commercial aviation is as risky as engaging in interstellar exploration? And no, I wouldn’t allow a child of mine to play high school football, not so long as I have control over his (or her) activities. You can get killed (or worse, crippled) in that stupid game. ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/104 "2016-09-15T22:09:54Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The original high concept and pitch title of _Star Trek_ was literally “Wagon Train to the Stars”. So the parallel was quite explicit. Proving that the true inheritor of TOS was in fact Firefly. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/105 "2016-09-15T22:10:26Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Picard was smart. He didn’t want children on board to begin with. > > Rhetorical question: Learning to ride a bike or traveling on commercial aviation is as risky as engaging in interstellar exploration? > > And no, I wouldn’t allow a child of mine to play high school football, not so long as I have control over his (or her) activities. You can get killed (or worse, crippled) in that stupid game. Yes, and yet, millions of other parents do. Funny you can’t see that your viewpoint is not only not absolute, it isn’t even common. No one is forcing you to take your kids on a starship. For the handy example, is it better or worse that Wesley was there on the ship when his father died? He got to be with him every day, whereas if his father was off halfway across the galaxy while Wes stayed at home, he’d have never known him at all, likely. But, if Jack hadn’t joined Starfleet, he’d probably still be alive. And maybe Wes would have been killed by a falling piano. Or maybe not. Who knows? You can’t live your life in fear. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/106 "2016-09-15T22:11:45Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Anyone notice this thread got bumped after two years? See post 68 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/107 "2016-09-15T22:20:00Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Yes, and yet, millions of other parents do. Funny you can’t see that your viewpoint is not only not absolute, it isn’t even common. I don’t give a good goddamn what other people do. If they’re stupid enough to agree to such things, that’s their business. It’s just too bad that natural selection operates so slowly. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/108 "2016-09-15T22:22:03Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Is it better or worse that Wesley was there on the ship when his father died? He was? Seemed to me Wesley had very little recollection of his father, who left a little hologram behind for him before he died. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/109 "2016-09-15T22:28:19Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Wagon trains carried settlers to populate new lands. The naval vessels of that or any other day did not. Wha? Are you familiar with the nation of [Australia](http://www.convictrecords.com.au/ships)? Or even the Mayflower? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/110 "2016-09-15T22:38:35Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Wha? Are you familiar with the nation of [Australia](http://www.convictrecords.com.au/ships)? Or even the Mayflower? The _Mayflower_ was a merchant vessel, not a military one, and while Australia might have transported some of their unwilling-prisoner-colonists in military vessels for security, voluntary colonists needed no such accommodations. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/111 "2016-09-15T22:54:43Z")
Not sure if the distinction between merchant and military ships is all that relevant, especially since Gene Roddenberry specifically decreed that Starfleet [was not a military organization](http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/54154/is-starfleet-a-military-or-civilian-organization), and Picard says as much in a TNG episode. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/112 "2016-09-15T22:58:10Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > especially since Gene Roddenberry specifically decreed that Starfleet [was not a military organization](http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/54154/is-starfleet-a-military-or-civilian-organization) And it never made a lick of sense when he did so, not even once. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/113 "2016-09-15T23:24:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And it never made a lick of sense when he did so, not even once. But if that was the premise of the show, then that was the premise of the show. You can’t fight the basic assumption of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/114 "2016-09-16T00:59:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > But if that was the premise of the show, then that was the premise of the show. You can’t fight the basic assumption of the story. The creator of the show _said_ it was the premise but the events depicted in the show contradicted him constantly. It has the same weight as if Dick Wolf announced that _Law & Order_ had always been a musical comedy. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/115 "2016-09-16T01:43:08Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Not sure if the distinction between merchant and military ships is all that relevant, especially since Gene Roddenberry specifically decreed that Starfleet [was not a military organization](http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/54154/is-starfleet-a-military-or-civilian-organization), and Picard says as much in a TNG episode. Yeah, we’ve been discussing that since the Nitpicker’s Guild was in real paper newsletters. It’s both. And it’s neither. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/116 "2016-09-16T01:53:49Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > See post 68 I saw that, but I thought maybe I misunderstood because it was so subtle. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/117 "2016-09-16T02:08:49Z")
Starfleet personnel graduate from an academy, wear uniforms and insignia of rank, have a chain of command, are subject to disciplinary action and courts martial, enforce interstellar law, combat piracy, and occasionally even fight in wars. Sounds pretty damned military to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/118 "2016-09-16T02:14:34Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Starfleet personnel graduate from an academy, wear uniforms and insignia of rank, have a chain of command, are subject to disciplinary action and courts martial, enforce interstellar law, combat piracy, and occasionally even fight in wars. Sounds pretty damned military to me. Plus David Marcus calls them “the military” in _Wrath of Khan_, the best movie. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/119 "2016-09-16T02:31:28Z")
I forgot “patrol Federation space and maintain the security of its borders.” Duh! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871/120 "2016-09-16T02:43:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The _Mayflower_ was a merchant vessel, not a military one, and while Australia might have transported some of their unwilling-prisoner-colonists in military vessels for security, voluntary colonists needed no such accommodations. Naval vessels might have rescued and evacuated colonists in situations of extreme danger (natural disasters, wars, political upheavals) and helped to resettle them elsewhere, but this was far from their primary task. The _Enterprise_ did from time to time perform such duties (“This Side of Paradise,” “Up the Long Ladder”), but ferrying civilians was certainly not what it was intended for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hating-on-star-trek-the-next-generation/689871.md?page=7)