# Have 2 leaders of different countries ever had sex with each other? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 31, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632 "2017-01-31T02:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/21 "2017-01-31T19:55:58Z")
George W. Bush gave Angela Merkel a backrub. Bush and Tony Blair look like they came pretty close: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtEH6wZXPA4) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/22 "2017-01-31T20:06:26Z")
Trump and Theresa May held hands. That’s probably as close as Trump comes to sex. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/23 "2017-01-31T20:17:55Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > That’s probably as close as Trump comes to sex. If you think there aren’t clauses in Melania’s prenup on this issue, you’ve got more faith in humanity than I do. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/24 "2017-01-31T20:40:09Z")
It’s interesting that all the examples given so far have been monarchs of one sort or another. This strikes me as a more robust variation of the McDonald’s rule of international relations: no two heads of state from countries that have McDonald’s franchises (or democratic systems) will have sex. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/25 "2017-01-31T20:45:44Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > If you think there aren’t clauses in Melania’s prenup on this issue, you’ve got more faith in humanity than I do. “Santa-Putin is here…! Ho-ho-ho? What you like, Trump-baby? Brunette this time?” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/26 "2017-01-31T20:51:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Eleonor of Aquitaine, then an independent Duchy, first married Louis VII of France, and then when that marriage was annulled Henry II of England. I’m gonna naysay this one if you don’t mind. Aquitaine wasn’t remotely independent. The southern portion ( duchy of Gascony, often not listed separately after it was acquired by the dukes of Aquitaine in 1053, but see the map where it labeled [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:France_1154-en.svg) )was an allod until ~1259 I believe, but still considered on the whole part of the French crown in this period. The more important northern part ( duchy of Aquitaine proper ) was held _of_ the French crown and the dukes absolutely had to perform homage to the king for their lands. Aquitaine was part of France and Eleanor was a French vassal - there was no independence in any political sense. Henry II I’ll give you a kinda, maybe. Yes, he was king of England. But he too was a French vassal, son of a French count, born and raised in France, spoke a French dialect as his first language ( and only a little English, which he never became fully fluent in ) and after his early reign probably paid as much or more attention to his French territories than his English ones. So instead of two points ( Louis and Eleanor, Henry and Eleanor ), I’m more inclined to score you at 1/2 :). Also that Eleanor bare-breasted on Crusade thing? Very doubtful ;). A lot of rumors were spread about her from that period that reflected an attempt to make her appear…eh…“loose.” Fallout from that failed marriage with king Louis, medieval notions ( especially medieval clerics ) about the morality of womanhood and an interesting regional bias of dominant northern French ( especially northern French clerics ) of the “sensuous” ( and hence sinful ) southern French. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/27 "2017-01-31T21:02:27Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Are we talking dynastic marriages where the marriage took place before one or other party had actually had become top dog? I think we’d be adding a whole lot more in if we did. I’m not sure where the OP was going, but I was trying to think of two people who were genuine sovereigns ( even if only technically ) of different states outside each others political framework. So Mary of Burgundy wasn’t sovereign - she was a vassal of the French crown for her French lands and a vassal of the HRE for her German ones. In that sense Maximilian was from the same “country” as a Mary, not a different one. But of course the HRE is a tricky one, especially as you get farther along in history and the unity of the state becomes more and more theoretical. Are 17th century Saxony and Bavaria different countries or not? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/28 "2017-01-31T21:02:44Z")
For some reason, every time I read this thread title I have an image of Maggie Thatcher, helmet-hair and all, on the prowl at a Commonwealth Conference … ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/29 "2017-01-31T21:44:38Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > For some reason, every time I read this thread title I have an image of Maggie Thatcher, helmet-hair and all, on the prowl at a Commonwealth Conference … I just threw up a little in my mouth, and not just for the Maggie imagery. Tangentially, I think Tracy Ullman’s Angela-Merkel-as-wannabe-sexpot sketches on her new HBO show are hilarious. Here’s one example, but she’s done more: [https://youtu.be/J138HPgD\_ZM](https://youtu.be/J138HPgD_ZM) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/30 "2017-02-01T00:48:16Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I just threw up a little in my mouth, and not just for the Maggie imagery. Do you want to throw up a LOT in your mouth? Pres Bush [flirting](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-453199/Blundering-Bush-makes-ANOTHER-gaffe-winks-Queen.html)with the Queen of England. ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/31 "2017-02-01T01:16:07Z")
What I was trying to get at is that quite often these leaders will see each other at conferences, summits and similar events. Also, it doesn’t have to be the president/prime minster/monarch either, it could be any one in the top levels of the governments that this could be expanded to. Most of these leaders had gone through a (in most cases) a grueling process to be elected and often will have had similar experiences that they can relate to. What I was asking is whether any of these relations progressed any further than just these meetings. Obviously, it has only be recently that there has been significant numbers of females in the upper levels of government for this to occur. I could be wrong but this may have already happened a few times but everything was kept quiet especially if it was a one off occurrence or a short affair. The other reason I suspect that this may occur is that if one looks at sports stars/actresses, it is not unusual for them to pair up with each other. ie Steffi Graff/Andre Agassi Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie to give some famous examples However, considering the 24/7 limelight many of these people are under, it may be difficult to keep quiet for very long. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/32 "2017-02-01T05:30:57Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Julius Caesar and Cleo too, but Julie was part of a triumvirate at the time. I doubt that Cleo did her brother, even though they were married. Antony was the one in a triumvirate at (or, well, for some of) the time. Caesar’s triumvirate was very much dead at the point when he started banging the queen, as were (spoiler alert) both of his fellow triumvirs. Caesar arrived in Egypt immediately following (did I say spoiler alert?) Pompey’s unfortunate demise. Cleo was actually in Rome at the time of Caesar’s (extra massive spoiler alert here) assassination. > [@China\_Guy](#): > > Didn’t one of the Roman Emperors (Hadrian?) have a physical relationship with one of the barbarian kings or leaders? I vaguely remember reading about this but it could be just a SDMB legend. 😉 I have not heard of this, although it doesn’t sound likely to me right off the bat. I do know that the Emperor Titus had a relationship with the Jewish queen Berenice. Not sure if she counts as leader of a country, though, as she was very much a Roman client monarch. To get back on Caesar for a second, though, he was of course alleged to have had an affair with king Nicomedes of Bithynia, something that he never heard the end of. That was in Caesar’s youth, though, before he got into the ruling business. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/33 "2017-02-01T06:28:39Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Eleanor was a badass. She rode bare-breasted to the Crusades. Sorry, but i’m going with **Tamerlane** here, although i’ll be even more definitive: this didn’t happen. > [@](#): > > Following the lead Elizabeth A.R. Brown established in her ground-breaking 1977 article…, Owen dismantled several legends that still surround Eleanor—for example the story in which she is an “amazon” who rode bare-breasted to the Crusade, a fanciful tale Owen traced to the pages of Agnes Strickland. Source: [“Prologue,” in _Eleanor of Aquitaine: Lord and Lady_, (ed. Bonnie Wheeler and John Carmi Parsons), Palgrave/Macmillan, 2002, p. vvii.](https://books.google.com/books?id=5rAYDAAAQBAJ&lpg=PR3&pg=PR17#v=onepage&q&f=false) A much earlier piece, from 1941, also took issue with this view of Eleanor: > [@](#): > > The presence of these ladies among the crusaders tickled the popular imagination and provided a starting point for fanciful accounts of their doings. A story arose to the effect that Eleanor was a sort of earlier Jeanne d’Arc or later Hippolyta, and led into battle a band of warrior ladies, who fought bravely beside their husbands, but caused the latter grave concern for their safety, and so disrupted the order of the army. The vision of Eleanor in full twelfth-century armor, on horseback, at the head of a battalion of Amazons, is not incompatible with the ardor and vehemence of character that she displayed on other occasions; but there is no contemporary evidence to justify it. Larrey is perhaps the first to use this episode, which he may have invented to give Eleanor a colorful part in the drama of the crusade. Since his day, it has been repeated a number of times, with more or less credence, and has gained a certain respectability from the company it has kept; but it has no foundation in the writings of Eleanor’s contemporaries. Source: [Frank McMinn Chambers, “Some Legends Concerning Eleanor of Aquitaine,” _Speculum_ Vol. 16, No. 4 (Oct., 1941), p. 460.](http://www.jstor.org/stable/2852844) [Although you need JSTOR access to read the full article.] ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/34 "2017-02-01T18:34:07Z")
Aw come on, Eleanor even says it in **The Lion in Winter**. She should know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/35 "2017-02-01T19:00:42Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Aw come on, Eleanor even says it in **The Lion in Winter**. She should know. 🙂 I know, right? All the best stories… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/36 "2017-02-02T02:01:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Philip was never the leader of another country. Maybe not, but he is worshiped as [a god in Vanuatu.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip_Movement) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/37 "2017-02-02T02:13:34Z")
Well, he and the Queen are descended from Wotan… ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/38 "2017-02-02T05:24:08Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > From Wiki, I get this: > > Now sovereign prince is not king, but it sounds like he was the big chief of Orange. I don’t know what Stadtholder means, but it also sounds like the big cheese. So when he married Mary, two sovereigns were joined. > > Maybe someone more versed in European history can explain this further. This one is a bit confusing. William was Sovereign Prince of Orange from his birth (in 1650), but the territory of the Principality was annexed to France in 1673, after which the title was nominal only. William didn’t marry Mary until 1677, so he wasn’t then the sovereign ruler (or the ruler in any sense) of Orange. Nor, for that matter, was Mary a sovereign or a ruler; she was but a humble princess. England and Scotland at the time were ruled by her uncle, Charles I and, while it was possible that she would inherit the thrones, it was pretty unlikely. She only succeeded to the throne 12 years later, when parliament intervened to deem her father, James II, to have abdicated, and to exclude her brother, James Francis, from the succession. William was, at the time of the marriage, Stadhouder of Holland, Zeeland, Utrecht and several other Netherlandish provinces. The Stadhouder was orginally a kind of Lord Lieutenant, appointed to represent the Duke of Burgundy (the sovereign) in the province. (This was necessary because the Duke had bigger fish to fry elsewhere, when he became Emperor and also King of Spain.) About a century before William’s time the Netherlandish provinces had successfully rebelled and declared themselves a republic. Stadhouders continued to be appointed but they now acted on behalf not of the Duke of Burgundy, but of the States (parliament) of the province. It was the States which appointed the stadhouder of each province. It was not uncommon for the same person to be appointed stadhouder of more than one province. Over time, in practice the office of stadhouder became hereditary in one family, so the option open to a province was (a) appoint the head of that family, or (b) appoint no stadhouder. At the time of his marriage William was stadhouder of five out of (I think) seven provinces. (Hendrik-Casimir II of Nassau was stadhouder of the other two.) The stadhouder technically was not a sovereign, but he was the chief executive, and I think it’s fair to call William the ruler of the Netherlands, and certainly fair to call him the rule of the five provinces of which he was stadhouder. But it wasn’t until 12 years later, in 1689, that Mary became Queen of England and Scotland (and William became King of England and Scotland, while continuing on as stadhouder). Only then do you have the rulers of two countries married to one another. And, not be indelicate or anything, but it’s not certain that William and Mary were still having sex at that point. Mary’s last pregnancy was in 1680, when she was 18, and from that time on William is known to have kept Elizabeth Villiers as his mistress, while his enemies alleged that he was homosexual. Mary died in 1694 at the age of 32. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/39 "2017-02-02T06:01:25Z")
Does it count that Peter III of Russia and Catherine the Great had sex, even though she didn’t become ruler until after his death? What about Catherine I and Peter the Great, even though she didn’t rule until after his death? Philip IV of France was married to Queen Joan of Navarre. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632/40 "2017-02-02T07:41:02Z")
Julius Caesar was widely asserted to have had sex with King Nicomedes IV of Bithynia. If this happened at all, though, it happened long before he became de facto ruler of Rome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-2-leaders-of-different-countries-ever-had-sex-with-each-other/778632.md?page=3)