# Have a hard time respecting the moderately religious **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053 "2014-07-14T05:29:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/543 "2014-08-25T10:00:19Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’m glad you posted this, as it makes your point much more clear. I, too, was a bit befuddled by the way you phrased it originally. > > Now, put this way, yes, definitely. If someone defines himself as a “loose constructionist,” and then constructs loosely, that makes sense. But if someone defines himself as a “strict constructionist” and still constructs loosely, one has to look at him askance. There would seem to be a contradiction between the label he chooses for himself and his actual behavior. > > (“I’m a grammatical purist, damn if’n I ain’t.”) Glad that helped ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/544 "2014-08-25T10:13:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Or it could just be that the real point was grasped: Both sides are doing the exact same thing, taking the parts of the Bible they want to believe in, but just using different words to do it. I hope my recent post clears this up. I think the popular meme , that if you are a Christian you must follow what’s written in the bible, does not apply to all Christians, but only to those who profess the Bible is literally the inerrant word of God. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/545 "2014-08-25T17:27:49Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I think the popular meme , that if you are a Christian you must follow what’s written in the bible, does not apply to all Christians, but only to those who profess the Bible is literally the inerrant word of God. Your post did clarify quite nicely. It still looks like cherry picking from where I sit but at least in the second case there seems to be some attempt at thought vrs blind obedience. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/546 "2014-08-26T11:29:54Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Your post did clarify quite nicely. It still looks like cherry picking from where I sit but at least in the second case there seems to be some attempt at thought vrs blind obedience. Technically speaking I’m not sure they can cherry pick if their belief system doesn’t require them to follow the bible. That said, humans being human, I’m sure there is justification and rationalizing going on in which people tweak their beliefs to fit their personal preference or the situation of the moment. Real discipline and stark personal honesty is hard. It’s also part of ongoing spiritual growth. Someone has to admit to themselves they are falling short and make the decision to improve. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/547 "2014-08-26T12:37:42Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > … It’s also part of ongoing spiritual growth. Someone has to admit to themselves they are falling short and make the decision to improve. I admit it. I’m not stoning enough people to death. But it’s so much more difficult without a mob to help with all the needed stones! ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/548 "2014-08-26T18:37:57Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I admit it. I’m not stoning enough people to death. But it’s so much more difficult without a mob to help with all the needed stones! I was thinking more along the lines of dealing with personal flaws like greed, jealousy, being judgemental, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/549 "2014-08-26T18:49:59Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Real discipline and stark personal honesty is hard. It’s also part of ongoing spiritual growth. Someone has to admit to themselves they are falling short and make the decision to improve. If I Remove the word “spiritual” from that sentence then you are describing a truth I can completely get behind. Well stated. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/550 "2014-08-26T19:04:31Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I was thinking more along the lines of dealing with personal flaws like greed, jealousy, being judgemental, etc. I was referring to dealing with these flaws in _other_ people. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/551 "2014-08-27T06:18:49Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > If I Remove the word “spiritual” from that sentence then you are describing a truth I can completely get behind. Well stated. Yep, you could just as easily say personal growth as spiritual growth. different paths work for different people, but none work without some degree of discipline and personal honesty. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/552 "2014-08-27T06:20:07Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I was referring to dealing with these flaws in _other_ people. 🙂 I see. Some good F.U. Therapy helps occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/553 "2014-08-31T20:19:05Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I admit it. I’m not stoning enough people to death. But it’s so much more difficult without a mob to help with all the needed stones! Plus some of those bigger stones are really good for decorating and landscaping your home. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/554 "2014-11-28T12:24:11Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > OK, I admit up front I am an atheist and even more accurately an anti-theist… > > I have a hard time respecting the moderately religious. Like, you have enough common sense or intelligence to recognize that the world is not 10,000 years old or that stories of talking snakes and talking donkeys are myths, as well as Noah’s Ark and other stories, but you somehow still think there is only one god, the christian god, and you must believe in him or go to hell. Even harder to understand/respect is the liberal christian, “I believe in Jesus but I think there are many paths (besides Jesus) to heaven”. That is so completely against the bible. Why even bother to be religious if you are just going to make up your own version of the religion? Why not be “spiritual” instead? To play devil’s advocate, you find the more fervent religious people to be more tolerable? Because they are truer to their convictions? I think religion is fine if put into context; it’s a mythology that uses imagination to tell a story designed to give people comfort in hard times. The problem comes when you start taking it literally. Any religion. They don’t have to be true in order to contain truth. Also, everyone religious person creates their own version of their religion. It’s human nature for us to remember the parts of the stories we find relevant. I can learn something about unconditional love and sibling rivalry from “The Prodigal Son” for example. It doesn’t matter whether the story actually took place, or whether the storyteller ever actually existed. The lesson is still the same. And for that matter, there doesn’t actually have to be a wise little green creature on the moon of Dagobah in order for the words “Do or do not; there is no try” to ring true. Stories are what we as humans use to teach lessons by engaging the imagination. Nothing wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/555 "2015-01-18T08:57:31Z")
I see fervent religious belief as synonymous with mental illness. A little be kind to others goes a long way, but you can have a peaceful civilization without the need for all the mytho/historical underpinnings. I tend to respect the moderately religious more than than the devout in terms of finding a balance. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/556 "2015-01-18T18:15:56Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I see fervent religious belief as synonymous with mental illness. Good luck getting _that_ into the DSM. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/557 "2015-01-18T20:59:48Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Good luck getting _that_ into the DSM. Ha! Good point. And yet, the DSM has to be based on science and symptoms, not things that can’t be measured. Ultimately, religious belief has everything to do with the power of the imagination, and pretty much every bipolar person on their way to a manic high starts hearing the voice of God somewhere. Come to think of it, that’s pretty much the only people who DO hear the voice of God–those that have crossed that thin line between genius and insanity. Take Joan of Arc, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/558 "2015-01-18T21:06:58Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > pretty much every bipolar person on their way to a manic high starts hearing the voice of God somewhere. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/559 "2015-01-19T00:15:45Z")
Personal experience. It’s one of the reasons I get very leery around overly religious people, especially those who have just experienced revelations. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/560 "2015-01-21T11:46:55Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Personal experience. It’s one of the reasons I get very leery around overly religious people, especially those who have just experienced revelations. You have “personal experience” of “pretty much every bipolar person”? Like, pretty much every bipolar person in the world? I find that hard to believe. So, again, where did you get the idea that > [@](#): > > pretty much every bipolar person on their way to a manic high starts hearing the voice of God somewhere ? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/561 "2015-01-21T12:31:03Z")
Oh, in that case, textbooks written by experts on the subject. People like Kay Redfield Jamison for example. Religious delusions of grandeur are a pretty common symptom. Maybe not for everybody, but for enough to be a trend. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053/562 "2015-01-21T12:40:03Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Oh, in that case, textbooks written by experts on the subject. People like Kay Redfield Jamison for example. Religious delusions of grandeur are a pretty common symptom. Maybe not for everybody, but for enough to be a trend. So, not “pretty much every bipolar person,” then. As for the idea of “fervent religious belief as synonymous with mental illness,” are there any “experts on the subject” who agree with you there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-a-hard-time-respecting-the-moderately-religious/693053.md?page=29)