# Have any atheists ran afoul of vampires? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 29, 2002, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080 "2002-08-29T13:32:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/21 "2002-08-30T04:11:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*ResIpsaLoquitor \*\*\* > In another comic reference, the X-Men once battled Dracula, who was trying to turn Storm into his bride. Wolverine tried holding him at bay by putting his claws into a cross shape. Dracula pounded the \*\*\*\* out of him, commenting that the holy symbol only worked for believers. You took mine. So I will add that, upon hearing this, Nightcrawler bamfed in, saying that he was a believer. He got his butt handed to him too, however. ---
**Author:** ![Horseflesh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horseflesh/32/7502_2.png) [@Horseflesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horseflesh)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/22 "2002-08-30T06:05:27Z")
**Avalonian** - I haven’t read the Dan Simmons novel but is the 1991 film [_Children of the Night_](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0103957#comment) based on his book? They sound awfully similar. Regardless of the its IMDb ranking, I liked the movie as it took a somewhat more scientific approach to vampirism (a la _Near Dark_). ---
**Author:** ![Horseflesh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horseflesh/32/7502_2.png) [@Horseflesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horseflesh)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/23 "2002-08-30T06:21:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > **In _Dracula 2000_ (hardly an authoritative source), …** You mean there _are_ authoritative sources out there? Spill!! ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/24 "2002-08-30T07:36:52Z")
> [@](#): > > You mean there _are_ authoritative sources out there? Spill!! Well, you can’t get more authoritative than the works of Dr. Rudolph van Richten, the most famous monster hunter in Ravenloft. In order to ward off a vampire with a holy symbol, you must roll 1d20 + your Charisma bonus and have the result be equal to or greater than 10 + 1/2 the vampire’s Hit Dice + the vampire’s Charisma bonus. The roll is subject to the following modifiers:[ul] [li]+1 if the character is a paladin or cleric of the deity the symbol represents.[/li][li]+2 if the deity is associated with the sun.[/li][li]+1 if the deity is good.[/li][li]+1 if the character is an Innocent.[/li][li]+1 if the holy symbol is of masterwork quality.[/li][li]-1 if the holy symbol is makeshift or poor quality.[/li][li]+2 if the vampire worshipped the deity while alive.[/li][li]-1 if the vampire is unfamiliar with the deity.[/li][li]+2 if the character has the Iron Will feat.[/li][li]-2 if the vampire has the Iron Will feat.[/li][li]-2 if the vampire has caused the character to fail a Fear, Horror, or Madness save within the past 24 hours.[/li][li]-1 if the vampire has caused the character to fail a Fear, Horror, or Madness save at any other time.[/li][/ul]Who needs folklore when you can get mathematically precise results like this? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/25 "2002-08-30T14:07:46Z")
Avalonian > [@](#): > > I think he may have been the first author the explore the effects of AIDS on vampirism… Charles Bowen was the first I knew of, in his “Diary of a Vampire” c. 1994. When was Simmons’ book? White Lightning > [@](#): > > You took mine. So I will add that, upon hearing this, Nightcrawler bamfed in, saying that he was a believer. He got his butt handed to him too, however. Nope. As I noted, Nightcrawler snatched up a couple of sticks and formed a cross. Not only did he not get his butt handed to him, IIRC Dracula actually fled the battle. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/26 "2002-08-30T14:17:55Z")
How many hit dice do vampires have on average? Beacuse assuming average charisma for people and vampires, the odds are (for an atheist with a cross) +2 for the sun bonus (He made it. That counts) +1 for the good deity (Sort of. Excepting the massacres and whatnot) +1 for innocence (atheists can’t sin, by definition.) +2 for Iron Will (what with resisting the evangelists and all) That’s D20 + 6 :: 10 + Vampire HD. Not bad. Of course, what happens when an atheist drops 50 pebbles enchanted with invisibility and continual light into a parabolic reflector and points it at a vampire? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/27 "2002-08-30T14:30:34Z")
Then there’s always _Love at First Bite:_ Rosenberg: “Ha hah! Three silver bullets through the heart! _blam, blam, blam_” Dracula: “No, Dr. Rosenberg, that is for werewolves.” Rosenberg: “Really? Dang.” ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/28 "2002-08-30T14:31:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*Of course, what happens when an atheist drops 50 pebbles enchanted with invisibility and continual light into a parabolic reflector and points it at a vampire? \*\* Since it’s not sunlight, it probably wouldn’t have much effect. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/29 "2002-08-30T15:20:15Z")
Tangential vampire thing that popped into my head: Anyone remember the lousy _Dracula: the Series_ syndicated show a few years ago? Y’know, it’s one of those lousy off-network shows like _VIP_ or _Mutant X_ or what have you. Anyway, one of the characters invented a photonic gun intended to kill vampires. It later turned out to be a “delayed reaction vampire gun”: it’d zap a vampire, but not kill him until hours later. Now, for D&D purposes…what if I had a cleric bless a Decanter of Endless Water? Couldn’t I just put it on “nuke” setting, find a nice crypt in Ravenloft, and let the XPs just rack up? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/30 "2002-08-30T15:24:17Z")
As long as were citing fine literature, in the comic book series _Vamps_ it’s definitely a matter of the icon wielder’s faith. One of the vampires is planning on attacking this crazy homeless guy, who suddenly pulls out a hubcap which he thinks is a holy shield. The vampire knows it’s just a hubcap, but because the crazy guy really believes in its power, it actually works to repel the vampire. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/31 "2002-08-30T15:32:29Z")
Just thought I’d mention, for those keeping score at home, that “I Am Legend” was the source material for the movie “The Omega Man” … and, for that matter, the Simpsons parody “The Homega Man,” which I saw before I saw the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/32 "2002-08-30T16:52:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > **Avalonian > Charles Bowen was the first I knew of, in his “Diary of a Vampire” c. 1994. When was Simmons’ book?** Simmons’ _Children of the Night_ was first published in 1992, according to [Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0399137173/qid=1030725417/sr=12-1/104-7858768-9131968?v=glance&s=books). Didn’t have my first edition handy to check. _grin_ **Horseflesh** , that obviously answers your question… the movie you mention came before Simmons’ book. Since “children of the night” is actually a phrase used in Stoker’s novel _Dracula_, it’s fairly common in vampire literature these days. The movie sounds like it might be worth a late-night viewing, I’ll have to give it a go. _Near Dark_, by the way, is pretty much my favorite vampire film. And another good example of a vampire story that pretty much avoids any religious involvement. But lots of guns! A great film by Kathryn Bigelow. ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/33 "2002-08-30T17:04:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > Since it’s not sunlight, it probably wouldn’t have much effect. Has a vampire ever taken on a dedicated sun worshiper? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/34 "2002-08-30T17:12:50Z")
_Near Dark_ also avoids use of the word “vampire,” which is a really neat trick. GREAT movie. Great soundtrack by Tangerine Dream. **ResIpsaLoquitor** , I’d say the cleric would have to be able to _bless_ an infinite amount of water… isn’t that spell limited in how much water can be blessed? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/35 "2002-08-30T17:41:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ethilrist \* > \*\ ***ResIpsaLoquitor** , I’d say the cleric would have to be able to _bless_ an infinite amount of water… isn’t that spell limited in how much water can be blessed? \*\* They’re not blessing the water, though–they’re blessing the decanter that produces the water. Big difference, and who knows if it would cause it to produce holy water? If I were DM, I’d say no. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Threadkiller_ > **Has a vampire ever taken on a dedicated sun worshiper?** No idea. ---
**Author:** ![Doubting\_Robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@Doubting\_Robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubting_Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/36 "2002-08-30T20:35:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \* > \*\*Just thought I’d mention, for those keeping score at home, that “I Am Legend” was the source material for the movie “The Omega Man” … and, for that matter, the Simpsons parody “The Homega Man,” which I saw before I saw the movie. \*\* “I Am Legend” was also the source for the movie “The Last Man on Earth” (see [http://us.imdb.com/Title?0058700](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0058700) ) starring Vincent Price. It is much more faithful to the book and, IMHO, a much better movie. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/37 "2002-08-31T00:18:47Z")
Joanna Russ wrote a short story, “My Dear Emily” (reprinted in Terry Carr and Martin Greenburg’s anthology A Treasury of Modern Fantasy), in which an atheist uses a crucifix against a vampire. He takes it from her and says something like: "You use it like a hypodermic. Now if it was in your father’s hands… " (Her father was a stuffy but devout clergyman). In one D&D adventure a long time ago, my atheist, elven mage/thief was a member of a party that confronted a powerful vampire, but his solution involved magic missiles and a fireball, not a holy symbol. However, robert probably doesn’t want to hear about that. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/38 "2002-08-31T01:00:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Peyote Coyote \* > \*\*In one D&D adventure a long time ago, my atheist, elven mage/thief was a member of a party that confronted a powerful vampire, but his solution involved magic missiles and a fireball, not a holy symbol. However, robert probably doesn’t want to hear about that. \*\* Yes, setting the bastards on fire always seems to work pretty well, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/39 "2002-08-31T03:40:05Z")
In Terry Practchett’s excellent (and very funny, of course) _Carpe Jugulum_ has an interesting take on vampires and holy symbols. The patriarch of a thoroughly modern family of “vampyres” believes that aversion to holy symbols, garlic, sunlight, etc., is mostly psychosomatic. He attempts to acclimate his family to these things through psychological techniques such as surprising the kids with flashcards of various holy symbols – “Good, good, you hardly even flinched that time!” This works fairly well, but towards the end of the novel one vampire character starts to freak out because she knows so many exotic holy symbols that she can hardly look anywhere without seeing something in the shape of one. ---
**Author:** ![Marlitharn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Marlitharn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marlitharn)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2002, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080/40 "2002-08-31T11:40:50Z")
I recall reading a short story, the title and author of which I will probably remember 2 seconds after hitting “submit”, which featured a thoroughly modern vampire. Instead of hunting his victims, he utilized a mass mailing technique, sending out cards informing his intended meals that “A vampire will be calling on such and such a date at such and such a time. Please remove all religious symbols and mirrors.” His victims, expecting a creative kind of new salesman, complied. Anyway, the victim the story focuses on is a well-to-do executive type who, after realizing what’s going on, tries the old crucifix trick. No dice. In a panic, he pulls out his wallet and tries to bribe the advancing vampire, throwing twenties and fifties at him, babbling and pleading. And guess what? The cash repels the bloodsucker, who flees shrieking through the window. I think I’ll put all my faith in my old Rainbow Brite doll and go a-huntin’ for vampires. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-atheists-ran-afoul-of-vampires/126080.md?page=3)