# Have any Brit line-of-succession royals wound up in America? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2013, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465 "2013-02-06T06:55:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/1 "2013-02-06T06:55:26Z")
See subject. [Here](http://www.britroyals.com/succession.htm) are the top 100 in line. See if your name is there! ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/2 "2013-02-06T09:02:00Z")
The list looks thoroughly European. Sorry, no King Ralphs here! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/3 "2013-02-06T09:13:38Z")
I would have been in line except I married a Roman Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/4 "2013-02-06T09:42:18Z")
Heh. I was **born** one. Beat that. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/5 "2013-02-06T09:46:20Z")
Norway, Romania and the old Yugoslavia. That surprised me. No indications of Canadians, Kiwis or Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/6 "2013-02-06T10:29:19Z")
Well, if “America” includes Brazil, then the children of [Haakon Lorentzen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haakon_Lorentzen), who are 75, 76 and 77 in line are in America. (Haakon himself is out of the line because he married a Roman Catholic.) More interestingly, Tane Mahuta Lewis, who was born last year and who is 26th in line, has a Maori father. If he ever becomes King Tane Mahuta, I’d expect him to spend a lot of time in his New Zealand realm. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/7 "2013-02-06T13:43:43Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > See subject. [Here](http://www.britroyals.com/succession.htm) are the top 100 in line. See if your name is there! I hope one day we see the reign of Queen Flora Ogilvy or Queen Tallulah Lascelles. BTW, Queen Tallulah Lascelles is my drag name. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/8 "2013-02-06T13:48:02Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Norway, Romania and the old Yugoslavia. That surprised me. No indications of Canadians, Kiwis or Americans. Remember that there were a lot of marriages among the royal families of Europe, so they’re all interrelated. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/9 "2013-02-06T14:04:38Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > I hope one day we see the reign of Queen Flora Ogilvy or Queen Tallulah Lascelles. Oooh! I call Queen Tallulah Lascelles as my dr- . . . > [@moriah](#): > > BTW, Queen Tallulah Lascelles is my drag name. Damn it! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/10 "2013-02-07T02:49:02Z")
Here are the [Top 1345](http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wakefield/history/britsucc.html) Maybe someone can spot a Yank or a Canuck on it. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/11 "2013-02-07T03:02:02Z")
Not on those lists or anywhere close, but my girlfriends’ SIL is 17th in line to inherit a very nice, and still intact, castle in Scotland, though the dozen people directly in front of her are her older siblings, mother, and aunts and uncles. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/12 "2013-02-07T04:19:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Remember that there were a lot of marriages among the royal families of Europe, so they’re all interrelated. The effect is greatly amplified by the fact that the British throne allows matrilineal descent. A British royal princess marries into somebody else’s royal family, and her kids wind up in the succession for the British throne. If matrilineal descent weren’t allowed, they wouldn’t appear. There’s a tradition of these sorts of royal marriages since they were once a tool of diplomacy. So we wind up with the royal houses of Norway, Yugoslavia and Romania in the current line. Harald V of Norway, for instance, is Edward VII’s great grandson, through his daughter who married a Danish prince who became king of Norway when the Norwegian throne was restored. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/13 "2013-02-07T04:54:34Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > Here are the > > [Top 1345](http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wakefield/history/britsucc.html) > > Maybe someone can spot a Yank or a Canuck on it. With a list that long, it isn’t too hard. Here’s a list of the Duchy of Saxe-Coburg and Gothe descendents. You will notice a bunch of names that appear on the succession list appearing here as born in the US: > **[Duchy of Saxe-Coburg und Gotha - House of Wettin - Part II](http://www.almanachdegotha.org/id274.html)** > > Duchy of Saxe-Coburg und Gotha - House of Wettin - German: Herzogtum Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha served as the collective name of two duchies, Saxe-Coburg and Saxe-Gotha, in Germany. For instance, “Richard Darrel Berger, b.Fremont, Ohio 3 Jul 1962” is undoubtedly the guy on the succession list at 300. I just looked at random for a name with no titles, and poked around on “Calma Cook”. There may be somebody higher in the list. Calma Cook’s maiden name appears to be “Calma Barbara Schnirring”. She was born in Chile, and was apparently married first to somebody named Berger in Fremont, Ohio, then to somebody named Cook in North Carolina. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/14 "2013-02-07T05:38:50Z")
Wouldn’t it be more surprising if a European woman born in the 17th century (Sophia of Hanover) with around 6,000 known living descendants _didn’t_ have any in the United States? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/15 "2013-02-07T07:25:30Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > The effect is greatly amplified by the fact that the British throne allows matrilineal descent. A British royal princess marries into somebody else’s royal family, and her kids wind up in the succession for the British throne… Not only that but the Brits haven’t update their succession law in over 300 years; most monarchies do every few generations or limit the degrees of kinship of dynasts. The UK doesn’t and has a result as the longest line of succession on the planet; probally in history. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/16 "2013-02-07T10:48:06Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Not only that but the Brits haven’t update their succession law in over 300 years; most monarchies do every few generations or limit the degrees of kinship of dynasts. The UK doesn’t and has a result as the longest line of succession on the planet; probally in history. Quite so; and the main reason is because the monarchy is shared by 15 other countries, all of which must assent to the exact same succession law or risk setting up a new royal line. It’s essentially seeking agreement of almost 30 Houses of Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/17 "2013-02-07T13:09:55Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Not only that but the Brits haven’t update their succession law in over 300 years; most monarchies do every few generations or limit the degrees of kinship of dynasts. The UK doesn’t and has a result as the longest line of succession on the planet; probally in history. But we are doing it now. The [Succession to the Crown Bill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Crown_Bill_2012)2012–13 removes male preference from the rules of primogeniture (so an older girl goes before her younger brother) and allows those in line to marry a Catholic (though not BE a Catholic). As soon as that goes through they will have to redo that list of the first 100! > [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Quite so; and the main reason is because the monarchy is shared by 15 other countries, all of which must assent to the exact same succession law or risk setting up a new royal line. It’s essentially seeking agreement of almost 30 Houses of Parliament. Apparently they have got it. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/18 "2013-02-07T13:42:09Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Apparently they have got it. Well, yes, they’ve finally gathered up the political will to do it! Although curiously there are certain irregularities coming up: [Constitutional Critique](http://blogs.usyd.edu.au/cru/2013/02/the_royal_succession_and_the_d.html) > [@](#): > > Even more strange is the fact that the Canadian Government contends that this Canadian Bill, assenting to the alteration in the law made by the UK Bill, would have the effect of changing succession to the Crown of Canada. This is despite the fact that the UK Bill does not purport to apply to Canada and that s 2 of the Canada Act 1982 (UK) expressly provides that UK legislation can no longer apply in relation to Canada. > > The most plausible argument that could be made to support this outcome would be that the Canadian Constitution requires that the person who is Sovereign of the United Kingdom be the Sovereign of Canada. Such an argument might have been based upon s 2 of the British North America Act 1867 (Imp) which previously stated that the provisions of that Act referring to the Queen extended to ‘the Heirs and Successors of Her Majesty, Kings and Queens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland’. That provision was repealed, however, in 1893. The equivalent provision remains as covering clause 2 of the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 (Imp). Nonetheless, three Justices of the High Court of Australia, in the case of Sue v Hill (1999) 199 CLR 462, [93], rejected the notion that this meant that any change in the British laws of succession would affect the succession to the Australian Crown. Chief Justice Gleeson and Justices Gummow and Hayne observed that only Australian legislation could change the rules of succession to the throne with respect to Australia and that a change to the British law could have no effect in Australia since s 1 of the Australia Acts 1986 (UK) and (Cth) came into force. Section 1 of the Australia Acts states that no Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom shall extend, or be deemed to extend, as part of the law of Australia. Likewise, s 2 of the Canada Act 1982 provides: > > No Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom passed after the Constitution Act, 1982 comes into force shall extend to Canada as part of its law. > > It would therefore seem to be abundantly clear that a Canadian law that simply ‘assents’ to a British law that changes succession to the British throne, does not and cannot affect succession to the throne of Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/19 "2013-02-07T14:15:16Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > But we are doing it now. The [Succession to the Crown Bill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Crown_Bill_2012)2012–13 removes male preference from the rules of primogeniture (so an older girl goes before her younger brother) and allows those in line to marry a Catholic (though not BE a Catholic). As soon as that goes through they will have to redo that list of the first 100! My understanding is that it is not retroactive and will begin with the Duck and Duchess of Cambridge’s first child. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465/20 "2013-02-07T14:28:02Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My understanding is that it is not retroactive and will begin with the Duck and Duchess of Cambridge’s first child. And they changed Duke to Duck, too? 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-brit-line-of-succession-royals-wound-up-in-america/649465.md?page=2)