# Have any prominent mathematicians been disappeared by the NSA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 4, 2005, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356 "2005-05-04T12:30:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/21 "2005-05-05T15:53:38Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > He is right that mathematicians tend to be politically left-of-center, certainly when compared with the general Agency population. Well, I meant that drafted mathematicians would be less likely to cooperate and get posted to an NSA-affiliated job, so even using the draft wouldn’t be that effective a “vacuum”. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/22 "2005-05-05T17:05:55Z")
> [@Mathochist](#): > > Also very common in the mid-to-late ‘80s was “I work with computers”. I remember that phrase coming up a lot at my parents’ parties. I still have to use that phrase. Otherwise, I’ll get questions like “Oh, do you carry a gun?” or “Can you break into my daughter’s computer so I can see who she’s been chatting with?” \ No to both. They hear “bank” and “security” and immediately conjure up an armed guard. Or they think I’m some sort of cracker with loose ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/23 "2005-05-05T17:46:54Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > The movies have really done a number on us. In summary, they portray us as smarter, better-organized, and more evil than we really are. Well, smarter and better-organized maybe… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/24 "2005-05-05T18:02:51Z")
> [@Balle\_M](#): > > Well, smarter and better-organized maybe… 😃 Since I know for a fact that NSA regulations prevent **F.U. Shakespeare** from saying this, I’ll say it on his behalf: **BWA-HA-HA-HAAA!** ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/25 "2005-05-05T18:03:45Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > well-documented stuff about Israel’s sinking of the _U.S.S. Liberty_, Does he suggest they knew it was U.S. before the attack? ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/26 "2005-05-05T18:11:22Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > _\_ (I’m not highly placed, just a worker bee)_\_ . Sure, that’s exactly what we’d _expect_ you to say. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/27 "2005-05-05T18:13:48Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > **Cervaise** , I haven’t read ‘Body of Secrets’, and I’m afraid I don’t know any inside info on the _Liberty_ incident. Really, I don’t – I’d say ‘no comment’ otherwise. Just for the record, I wasn’t mentioning the _Liberty_ sinking because I wanted more information on the incident; I was mentioning it because the assertions are, as I said, wildly inflammatory and hard to accept, and that in consequence one may want to take the book’s other material with a grain of salt. Aside from these accusations, the book seems to be well-researched and has been very informative, so far at least, but I thought it was worthwhile to mention for the context. (Yes, **c’plant** , that’s what the author is suggesting. See [this site](http://hnn.us/articles/193.html) for followup debate. If anyone’s interested in the subject, it should go to a new thread; I wasn’t trying at all to hijack this one, and this is the last time I’ll bring it up here. Sorry for the distraction.) ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/28 "2005-05-05T18:36:37Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Since I know for a fact that NSA regulations prevent **F.U. Shakespeare** from saying this, I’ll say it on his behalf: > > **BWA-HA-HA-HAAA!** Regulations my ass. He’s too busy repositioning one of the NSA satellites over my location. And what’s with all the government vans in the parking lot all of a sudden like? ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/29 "2005-05-05T21:32:19Z")
Just as a data point, one of my friends from high school went on to get a Ph.D. in Mathematics and has subsequently spent his career working for a government contracting firm in California. The firm is involved in communications, and a great deal of what he does (perhaps all) is classified, but it would be pure speculation to suggest that his firm is doing contract work for NSA or some other national defense agency. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/30 "2005-05-06T00:34:14Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > I still have to use that phrase. Otherwise, I’ll get questions like “Oh, do you carry a gun?” or “Can you break into my daughter’s computer so I can see who she’s been chatting with?” \ No to both. They hear “bank” and “security” and immediately conjure up an armed guard. Or they think I’m some sort of cracker with loose ethics. Well, it used to be much less likely to generate follow-up questions since computers weren’t nearly as ubiquitous as they are now. Nowadays it’s just seen as being evasive, since _everybody_ works with computers. There was a time in the mid-90s, though, when it really wasn’t a very good response since immediately the other person would ask for more information. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/31 "2005-05-06T00:37:02Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > Just as a data point, one of my friends from high school went on to get a Ph.D. in Mathematics and has subsequently spent his career working for a government contracting firm in California. The firm is involved in communications, and a great deal of what he does (perhaps all) is classified, but it would be pure speculation to suggest that his firm is doing contract work for NSA or some other national defense agency. Almost all mathematicians in industry do “classified” work, whether it has anything to do with defense or not. If a company thinks they need to pull in the big guns of rationality they’ll probably find the results worth protecting. ---
**Author:** ![NillyWilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3da27b/32.png) [@NillyWilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NillyWilly)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/32 "2005-05-06T11:50:51Z")
Slight nitpick: the term “classified” means that the information is related to national defense by definition. Civilian, non-government related, work may be confidential but it cannot be “classified”. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/33 "2005-05-06T15:36:57Z")
> [@NillyWilly](#): > > Slight nitpick: the term “classified” means that the information is related to national defense by definition. Civilian, non-government related, work may be confidential but it cannot be “classified”. Government, okay. National defense, I’m not certain. I had a friend who helped maintain servers for NIH, and his work was “classified”. Besides, there’s still a lot of work in national defense without coming _near_ the NSA. ---
**Author:** ![NillyWilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3da27b/32.png) [@NillyWilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NillyWilly)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356/34 "2005-05-06T17:49:22Z")
Actually I should have said national security. If his work at NIH is classified then it has been done so under the National Security Act. I don’t recall when the act was passed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-any-prominent-mathematicians-been-disappeared-by-the-nsa/302356.md?page=1)