Have Europeans done the most damage throughout human history?

[Bryan_Ekers]

@XT

Nope, still haven’t realized this, if this was directed at me.

It was’t directed to you so much as descriptive of me, and a realization I made about this topic pretty much just from reading the thread title. Just defining “Europeans” in some meaningful way sounds comical, even deciding on the borders of “Europe” is an arbitrary exercise.

Now, if you want to dispense with geographical (or, has been implied, genetic) elements, I suppose we could debate which branches of philosophy have caused the most damage.
I call religion.

[Horatio_Hellpop]

You know, I got bitch-slapped on these boards a few years ago for suggesting that “race” might be more than a sociological construct, but no one from the “There’s no such thing as race” contingent has popped up (although two posts did ask for a clearer definition of terms). Does “European” mean “white” here? And if so, is there a meaningful reason to exclude North Africans and Indians from the grouping?

Genghis Khan’s name popped up a few times. As conquerors go, he was surprisingly progressive. He attracted a loyal following by giving two simple laws to men who were accustomed to, well, two fewer than that. He didn’t impose Mongol culture on any of his conquests, he just wanted tribute money on a regular basis (Canada and Australia can’t make that claim about their conquests!). And aside from maybe the Tanguy, who he held a grudge against for imprisoning him, I’m drawing a blank on which civilizations he destroyed utterly. He grabbed unprecedented acreage, but medieval Siberia was low-hanging fruit. Subsequent conquerors claimed a patrilineal bloodline from him? Really? A lot of his own sons backed off of making that claim…

[MrDibble]

@Horatio_Hellpop

You know, I got bitch-slapped on these boards a few years ago for suggesting that “race” might be more than a sociological construct, but no one from the “There’s no such thing as race” contingent has popped up

Yes, they did.

[Hector_St_Clare]

@XT

No, it’s really not…I note you didn’t address the actual point (which is that Mao was directly affected and in direct contact with the founders of Soviet Communism and was directly influenced by them and it, as opposed to a large gap in history between the introduction of gunpowder and how the Europeans eventually used it…which was the rather lame correlation you were trying to make, that they are somehow on par), but if you wish to move on, that’s fine by me. Such is life.

I mean, really, the Taiping Rebellion was inspired by a “European” ideological import too, Christianity. (Christianity isn’t of course limited to Europe, and its initial arrival in China wasn’t through a European route, but I think European missionaries were the route through which the Taipings’ leader was exposed to it).

[psikeyhackr]

I think this is a poinless question. Science and technology ar hings hatbuild on themselves. Once any group got ahead there would be a tendency to stay ahead and progress. But technology does not decide what to do with itself.

Any moron can shoot a machine gun. So one White man with some real brains figures out something great an a thousand White morons jump up and shout see how intelligent WE are.

But now we have a globalized planet with 7,000,000,000 people. That population would be impossible to create and sustain without technology. Where do we go from here.

I think White European economists are a problem now. Talking about economic growth and pretending Planned Obsolescence does not exist for consumerism with 7 billion people. Economics is a BIG LIE waiting for a crash.

[Wesley_Clark]

I don’t know if Europeans are anymore evil than any other group, they just had the technology to allow their evil to exist on a larger scale. The trans african slave trade was done with the full support of Africans who would sell other black people into slavery in exchange for money and guns from the white slave traders.

In modern society European nations are among the best as far as making the world a better place. But historically, they probably weren’t any worse than other regions, they just had more power to act on their evil.

Also Most of the science and technology that helps people originated from European founded nations.

[Nava]

@Hector_St_Clare

I mean, really, the Taiping Rebellion was inspired by a “European” ideological import too, Christianity. (Christianity isn’t of course limited to Europe, and its initial arrival in China wasn’t through a European route, but I think European missionaries were the route through which the Taipings’ leader was exposed to it).

I’m reasonably sure it didn’t originate in Europe. Is anything which ever got to Europe European? That would apply to every religion in the world and most currently-existing languages.

[Ximenean]

Europeans have almost certainly committed more acts of evil, and more acts of good, than (for example) Americans, for the simple reason that far more Europeans have existed than Americans. Of the 100+ billion people who are thought to have ever lived, only a small proportion of them have lived in the Americas, which were sparsely populated compared to Europe and southeastern Asia until less than 200 years ago.

So you have to take that into account. If you look at maps of population density through history, like this one, it is clear that of the people who have ever lived, most of them were Chinese, Indian, or European, followed by central Africans and peoples of other parts of southeast Asia, the rest of the world only having a few pockets of population until recently.

Then you have to take into account the completeness of the historical record (possibly more complete regarding Europe?), and the biases in our own knowledge of historical events (again, possibly Euro-biased for many reading this thread?)

[Fuji]

@Horatio_Hellpop

Genghis Khan’s name popped up a few times. As conquerors go, he was surprisingly progressive… And aside from maybe the Tanguy, who he held a grudge against for imprisoning him, I’m drawing a blank on which civilizations he destroyed utterly. He grabbed unprecedented acreage, but medieval Siberia was low-hanging fruit.

:dubious:

Maybe you forgot these guys?

Anyway, I gotta get back to watching the Olympics. Go Khwarezm!

[Lamoral]

To put it very simply, Europeans HAVE done more damage to the world, but the fact that other nationalities or geographical entities HAVEN’T done so is but a matter of opportunity. In other words, all human beings are equally capable of being destructive (just as they’re all equally capable of being creative.)