# Have fun in the slammer, you sleazy-ass spammer

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [April 1, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762 "2004-04-01T17:36:51Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/1 "2004-04-01T17:36:51Z")

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[Buffalo Spammer convicted on all 14 counts](http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/36732.html)

It was painfully tedious, and took years, but woo-fucking-hoo. 😃

The SOB was spewing his crap through his [own mother’s phone line, as well as through the phone of the assisted living home where his mentally handicapped brother lives.](http://news.spamcop.net/pipermail/spamcop-list/2003-May/041885.html)

Now if we could just get in and out of the god damn courtroom a little bit faster, we might be able to catch some bigger fish.

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**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/2 "2004-04-01T17:46:09Z")

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Have fun in the slammer,  
You sleazy-ass spammer,  
We’ve taken your Porsche away.  
For though your great longing  
To increase my schlonging  
Was evident all of your days,  
Your mighty persistence  
Has plagued my existence;  
I’ll let Bubba count all the ways.

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**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/3 "2004-04-01T17:50:19Z")

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Am I the only one who sees the insanity of charging someone with a felony for sending spam mail? I swear, the world has gone insane.

Sam

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**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/4 "2004-04-01T17:51:36Z")

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From the second link:

> [@](#):
>
> Mrs. Carmack said she doesn’t know what her grandson does for work. She  
> didn’t know anything about a lawsuit, she said, but it sounded “real sad.”  
> She added, “Maybe if they got jobs for the fellows, they wouldn’t have to do  
> this.”

Okay, I’m calling bullshit on this. There is no justification for what Howard Carmack did, and nobody has a responsibility to hand him a real job so he doesn’t spend all of his time and energy annoying other people worldwide.  
(Nice work, **Dead Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger**.)

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**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/5 "2004-04-01T17:53:51Z")

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> [@GaWd](#):
>
> Am I the only one who sees the insanity of charging someone with a felony for sending spam mail? I swear, the world has gone insane.
> 
> Sam

The meatier charges involved the credit profile theft and fraud that he perpetrated in order to send the spam.

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**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/6 "2004-04-01T18:07:13Z")

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> [@honeydewgrrl](#):
>
> The meatier charges involved the credit profile theft and fraud that he perpetrated in order to send the spam.

Ok, well I suppose I ought to have read the bloomin link, eh? :smack: THat would be justified.

Sam

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**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/7 "2004-04-01T18:26:42Z")

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> [@GaWd](#):
>
> Am I the only one who sees the insanity of charging someone with a felony for sending spam mail? I swear, the world has gone insane.
> 
> Sam

Fraud and the like aside, I can kind of see making Spamming a felony and sending people that you catch away for a long, long time. Think about how much money they are costing society.

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**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/8 "2004-04-01T18:36:47Z")

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> [@Binarydrone](#):
>
> Fraud and the like aside, I can kind of see making Spamming a felony and sending people that you catch away for a long, long time. Think about how much money they are costing society.

How much money are they costing society?

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**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/9 "2004-04-01T18:43:38Z")

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Yeah, I hate Spam as much as the next person, but I hardly see how violating the lily-white sanctity of someone’s inbox with ads for crap they don’t need is a felony, when polluting the landscape with billboards of ads for crap no one needs is ok.

I’m all for tossing this guy in the Big House for fraud, but I hardly think it’s worthwhile to waste time on spammers at this moment in our history.

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**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/10 "2004-04-01T18:48:31Z")

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> [@kung fu lola](#):
>
> Yeah, I hate Spam as much as the next person, but I hardly see how violating the lily-white sanctity of someone’s inbox with ads for crap they don’t need is a felony, when polluting the landscape with billboards of ads for crap no one needs is ok.

Eh, one is legal, one is not. If you want to argue WHY they’re illegal, that’s another point I won’t contend. 🙂

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**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/11 "2004-04-01T18:55:10Z")

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> [@caphis](#):
>
> How much money are they costing society?

[Lots](http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2003/1117spamcost.html). Not just loss of productivity, but [infrastructure](http://www.lexisone.com/balancing/articles/n080003d.html) costs as well.

Do a Google search on the cost of Spam. Some of it is obviously overstated, but nonetheless, pretty alarming.  
The one spammer in the article sent out 830 MILLION email messages. That’s a tad more than your average user, and more than your average ISP bargained for. Multiply that by the number of different spammers in the game, and you get a _LOT_ of crap flowing through the system. So in order to keep throughput at a reasonable limit, the ISP has to invest in more computers and more routers. In order to store all this spam, the ISPs have to buy more disks.

Every ISP has to maintain a staff to deal with abuse and pay for Spam filters. All of which adds to YOUR cost.

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**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/12 "2004-04-01T18:57:30Z")

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> [@caphis](#):
>
> How much money are they costing society?

That is the billion dollar question and depends on who you ask.

For the sake of simplicity, let’s assume that spam accounts for 50% of all e-mail traffic. The internet has to handle that mail with the same priority and care as the solicited traffic. Take that to the ISP level, and half of an ISP’s e-mail budget goes to supporting this unwanted mail. Even more money is then spent on attempts to filter the spam out of customer inboxes. This all arrives at the end user in the form of higher fees, bogged down e-mail, and time and bandwidth spent while reading, deleting, or reporting the spam.

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**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/13 "2004-04-01T18:59:34Z")

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Or what **Finagle** said…

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**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/14 "2004-04-01T19:03:08Z")

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> [@caphis](#):
>
> How much money are they costing society?

[This article pegs the number at about $13 **BILLION** a year.](http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/01/03/spam.costs.ap/). Now I don’t know much about the consulting group that estimated this, but the figure doesn’t strike me as surprising.

This is a whole lot more than a mild annoyance. This is people spending time deleting email when they could be working. Customers email getting lost in the deluge. Servers being purchased that otherwise would not be needed and so forth and so on.

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**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/15 "2004-04-01T19:05:44Z")

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From the second article:

> [@](#):
>
> Most messages take only 5 to 10 seconds for the user to delete, he estimates. But “some messages use subjects that are quite good at making you read them,” Mr. Lewis said. **"Then there are people who get really upset and are put off work for an hour or half a day."**

Err… if a spam message makes an employee “so upset” that they are put off work for an hour or half a day, then there’s a problem with the employee.

I won’t argue the physical costs of dealing with spam – storage, bandwidth, and hardware – but come on? The lost productivity costs are just absurd if that’s what they amount to.

“This spam made me so upset I couldn’t work for 4 hours!” should not be met with “oh, then we’ll get right on that!” but rather with “right, well, you’re fired.”

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**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/16 "2004-04-01T19:19:03Z")

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> [@caphis](#):
>
> Err… if a spam message makes an employee “so upset” that they are put off work for an hour or half a day, then there’s a problem with the employee.
> 
> I won’t argue the physical costs of dealing with spam – storage, bandwidth, and hardware – but come on? The lost productivity costs are just absurd if that’s what they amount to.

But we aren’t talking about “a spam message”, we’re talking about every other e-mail in every inbox (assuming the 50% rate). For e-mail intensive jobs, the employer is either spending money to filter and maintain a higher ratio of legit mail to junk, or the employees are sifting through signifigantly polluted information. Sifting does not equal working, unless your job involves dissecting spam.

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**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/17 "2004-04-01T19:21:08Z")

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> [@kung fu lola](#):
>
> Yeah, I hate Spam as much as the next person, but I hardly see how violating the lily-white sanctity of someone’s inbox with ads for crap they don’t need is a felony, when polluting the landscape with billboards of ads for crap no one needs is ok.
> 
> I’m all for tossing this guy in the Big House for fraud, but I hardly think it’s worthwhile to waste time on spammers at this moment in our history.

Sure, but how about if there was a story run on me waving pictures **Juggz** in the faces of preteens?

Bad, huh?

Well…look in the majority of inboxes out there. Now imagine someone’s kid come across a picture a porno site with a nice little picture of a poorly faked Britney Spears DV/DA shot.

Kids should be forced to sneak looks at their parents’ porn, as has been the case throughout history.

-Joe, former porn sneaker

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**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/18 "2004-04-01T19:23:37Z")

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> [@honeydewgrrl](#):
>
> But we aren’t talking about “a spam message”, we’re talking about every other e-mail in every inbox (assuming the 50% rate). For e-mail intensive jobs, the employer is either spending money to filter and maintain a higher ratio of legit mail to junk, or the employees are sifting through signifigantly polluted information. Sifting does not equal working, unless your job involves dissecting spam.

I understand that, but I’m saying that it’s not good justification to say that spam lowers productivity because some employees get so upset at receiving spam that they can’t work for hours.

Browsing the SDMB also lowers productivity, should businesses attack the SDMB? No, they should deal with their employees.

Yes, spending 4 seconds to delete a spam inevitably does add up to real money. Who dissects time into 4 seconds? 4 seconds wasted = 56 seconds working. It’s like dealing with any other distraction. I’m all about reporting physical costs, but jesus, people are taking an annoyance and turning it into a monetary loss.

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**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/19 "2004-04-01T19:31:28Z")

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> [@caphis](#):
>
> …I’m all about reporting physical costs, but jesus, people are taking an annoyance and turning it into a monetary loss.

I do get what you are saying about the emotional component here. That said, Spam does still cause productivity loss.

I specifically work tech support. About 70% of my job involves answering email from paying customers. My support in box gets a lot of Spam, some of which is rather clever in that is looks as if it has come from a customer. So, I spend a lot of time sorting email, customers wait longer than they should and so forth. That makes me less productive.

Now, I don’t know what kind of a dollar figure that one can attach to that. I can tell you that we have lost sales because people who were demoing the program that I support waited longer that they should have. Just a few thoughts.

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**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762/20 "2004-04-01T19:40:31Z")

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Mr. Lewis’ cry baby statement does not, imho, represent the driving force behind the decreased productivity camp. At issue is the cumulative affect of physically (not emotionally) dealing with spam at the end user level.

[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-fun-in-the-slammer-you-sleazy-ass-spammer/237762.md?page=2)