# Have I mentioned lately how much I hate "manufactured demand?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 28, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125 "2010-03-28T18:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/21 "2010-03-28T20:33:13Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Oh, they don’t do anything so gauche as _lie_; that would be actionable. All they do, with banks of massive focus group and psychological research departments behind them, is spin, suggest, imply, and outright state that your life would be better if you gave us money in exchange for this product. So what? I can tell you need something until I’m blue in the face, but you aren’t going to believe me without good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/22 "2010-03-28T20:36:24Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > So what? I can tell you need something until I’m blue in the face, but you aren’t going to believe me without good reason. How does the existence of religion factor into that world view of humans as being perfectly rational creatures? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/23 "2010-03-28T20:37:05Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > It does get tricky because once you discover (for example) the cell phone, you realize it is kind of convenient to have a cell phone. You don’t _need_ one, and you were functioning just fine without one, but now that you have one, it’s kind of nice (and now you can pay for it every month like a good little consumer). But you didn’t have a need for it; I guess this would qualify as an artificial need; you like it now that you’ve experienced it, but you didn’t need it. I was visiting the ruins of a stone-age culture the other day. You’d expect a civilization like this to have… stones. What else really? Wood for fires, hides of animals they hunted, pots made out of the dirt they were standing on. They lasted for centuries, so obviously they had everything they needed, at least for that time. But they also had imported indigenous copper bells from Mexico. And imported macaws. Wtf!? Why does anyone need a macaw? Point being I think it is human nature to like trinkets. Still, I can dig your gripe. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/24 "2010-03-28T20:39:05Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > How does the existence of religion factor into that world view of humans as being perfectly rational creatures? Is this in the correct thread? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/25 "2010-03-28T20:43:09Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Is this in the correct thread? I hate to derail a thread, but you just claimed people don’t believe things without good reason. That simply isn’t true. People believe all sorts of crazy things, I can throw out countless examples for you if you like. The 9/11 truthers are another (non-religious) example. Why do you assume people are going to be any more rational when it comes to what they buy? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/26 "2010-03-28T20:45:34Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I can tell you need something until I’m blue in the face, but you aren’t going to believe me without good reason. What if the “good reason” is that I’m somehow confused, gullible, naïve, or emotionally vulnerable? “People know what’s good for them” can be an excellent excuse to hide behind if one wishes to manipulate them. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/27 "2010-03-28T20:46:40Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I hate to derail a thread, but you just claimed people don’t believe things without good reason. That simply isn’t true. > > People believe all sorts of crazy things, I can throw out countless examples for you if you like. The 9/11 truthers are another (non-religious) example. Why do you assume people are going to be any more rational when it comes to what they buy? of course they do. In general, people tend to have a decent reason to buy something before they part with money, though. You may disagree with that reason, but that doesn’t mean that people are marching to Wal-Mart in hypnotic trances. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/28 "2010-03-28T20:48:23Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > This rant was prompted by watching [The Story of Bottled Water](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se12y9hSOM0), in case you’re interested. I don’t support bottled water, either. What it is you’re arguing against? Advertising? How the heck would most companies stay afloat if they didn’t inform prospective customers of their existence? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/29 "2010-03-28T20:50:56Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > What if the “good reason” is that I’m somehow confused, gullible, naïve, or emotionally vulnerable? > > “People know what’s good for them” can be an excellent excuse to hide behind if one wishes to manipulate them. Those are not reasons to purchase. They are emotions that influence decisions, but they are not reasons in and of themselves. People often make bad decisions. I have not claimed otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/30 "2010-03-28T20:51:58Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > of course they do. In general, people tend to have a decent reason to buy something before they part with money, though. You may disagree with that reason, but that doesn’t mean that people are marching to Wal-Mart in hypnotic trances. What about advertising that’s targeted toward young children, and getting them to nag their parents into buying stuff? Is that also based off of perfectly rational choice on the part of consumers? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/31 "2010-03-28T20:59:36Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > What about advertising that’s targeted toward young children, and getting them to nag their parents into buying stuff? Is that also based off of perfectly rational choice on the part of consumers? Please stop with the “perfectly rational” idiocy. I’ve never said anything about it. Parents buy things for their children because they think it will make their children happy. That is a perfectly good reason to buy something, even if you disagree with it. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/32 "2010-03-28T21:08:18Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Please stop with the “perfectly rational” idiocy. I’ve never said anything about it. > > Parents buy things for their children because they think it will make their children happy. That is a perfectly good reason to buy something, even if you disagree with it. Everybody believes that what they’re doing is a good idea. I don’t dispute that. That still doesn’t mean that the decision is the optimal one for long term well being and happiness. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/33 "2010-03-28T21:09:03Z")
I’m anti-stuff, too. What other people do is their own business. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/34 "2010-03-28T21:14:41Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Everybody believes that what they’re doing is a good idea. I don’t dispute that. > That still doesn’t mean that the decision is the optimal one for long term well being and happiness. Who the hell is arguing that the decisions they make are optimal, in any way? Seriously, it’s like you’re in the wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/35 "2010-03-28T21:16:58Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Next you’re going to tell us that there’s no such thing as enough profits for a business. There isn’t. A business is, rightly so, free to make as much profit as possible as long as it does nothing illegal. In my opinion this should also include the directive to do nothing immoral, but I see nothing immoral about telling you what my product does and why that’s a good thing. If you think sparkley deodorant is just about the stupidest thing you’ve ever heard of don’t buy it, but you have no right whatsoever to prevent me from buying it if I want it. I buy bottled water, distilled water to be precise, from a company that tests the purity to ensure they deliver what I paid for. I do so because my house is very old and the water not only tastes like shit, I’ve tested it and it contains traces of things I do not want my young children ingesting regularly. The bottles are collected and reused. I really don’t care that you do not approve of this. Vote with your own money, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/36 "2010-03-28T21:29:53Z")
There can be (in my opinion) a happy medium between making profits and using exploitive marketing techniques to make as much money as you possibly can. We’re starting to realize as a society that it is actually immoral; there are only so many resources in the world, and we continue to squander them on ridiculous things (like just about everything you can find in a dollar store). At least, I hope to God we’re starting to realize it. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/37 "2010-03-28T21:34:02Z")
Retarded OP. OP disagrees with people purchasing decisions, blames marketers for destroying the environment by making consumer want to drink bottled water. Of course, consumers (other than OP) are mindless zombies controlled by advertising. The ironic and amusing part? Rant (and I use that term very loosely, a few bold tags does not an interesting post make) was inspired by _a propaganda film, which is basically marketing – that is, manufacturing demand – for an ideology!_ So, you only object to propaganda/marketing for things you disagree with, which is sort of a hypocritical move. What a fucking deluded and supercilious post to make; do you **need** the internet? You probably have a car or a TV and a bunch of other stuff you don’t **need**. The only thing you are actually doing with this post is reinforcing your own feeling of moral superiority that you get from being “environmental”. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/38 "2010-03-28T21:43:11Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Nonsense. There is no such thing as artificial desire or artificial demand. If you misjudge how much use you’re going to get out of a product, it’s your own fault. Both the advertisor and the advertisee are part of the phenomenon, neither can exist without the other. I’m not so much concerned about assigning blame as I am about raising awareness and getting people to think about their purchases and whether buying stuff like pet rocks and bottled water truly contributes to their own happiness. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/39 "2010-03-28T21:59:01Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Retarded OP. > > OP disagrees with people purchasing decisions, blames marketers for destroying the environment by making consumer want to drink bottled water. Of course, consumers (other than OP) are mindless zombies controlled by advertising. Mindless zombie may be a bit over the top. But I can attest from personal experience that I’ve made plenty of purchasing decisions that weren’t very well thought out and in the absence of advertising for the product I wouldn’t have bought it. Doesn’t mean that I bear zero responsibility and the advertising 100% responsibility, but it does lead me to be more skeptical of any advertisement I see. > [@](#): > > The ironic and amusing part? Rant (and I use that term very loosely, a few bold tags does not an interesting post make) was inspired by _a propaganda film, which is basically marketing – that is, manufacturing demand – for an ideology!_ So, you only object to propaganda/marketing for things you disagree with, which is sort of a hypocritical move. So basically, any critics of advertising and consumerism should just shut the fuck up or they are hypocrites? I humbly disagree. 😃 > [@](#): > > What a fucking deluded and supercilious post to make; do you **need** the internet? You probably have a car or a TV and a bunch of other stuff you don’t **need**. The only thing you are actually doing with this post is reinforcing your own feeling of moral superiority that you get from being “environmental”. Or maybe the poster has convinced a few readers not to buy bottled water. In that case, the OP’s mission has been advanced. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/40 "2010-03-28T22:49:22Z")
If this thread had been in Cafe Society I would have thought it was about the comedy coming out that touches on this, [The Joneses](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1285309/). It’s about a manufactured family who moves into an upscale neighborhood, and their job is to be so fabulous that their new friends and neighbors want what they own/eat/wear. Manufactured demand. I hope the movie is even half as good as the concept. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > It does get tricky because once you discover (for example) the cell phone, you realize it is kind of convenient to have a cell phone. You don’t _need_ one, and you were functioning just fine without one, but now that you have one, it’s kind of nice ( **and now you can pay for it every month like a good little consumer** ). Or maybe not. Thank goodness for Tracfones. And thank goodness for advertising (and the SDMB) that told me of the existence of Tracfones. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > But you didn’t have a need for it; I guess this would qualify as an artificial need; you like it now that you’ve experienced it, but you didn’t need it. I needed one dozens if not hundreds of times over the years before I ever broke down and got one. I refused to pay a monthly fee, which is why I held off until Tracfones came out, so maybe it wasn’t a dire need, but still. I’m not disagreeing with your point, but I remember driving a semi in the early '80s. One of my bosses had a phone in the truck, another one didn’t. The one who did saved a lot of money just by not having to waste fuel while searching for a telephone/parking space to call dispatch/get directions. Saved time too. That’s just one example. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125.md?page=3)