# Have I mentioned lately how much I hate "manufactured demand?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 28, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125 "2010-03-28T18:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/41 "2010-03-28T23:21:14Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Both the advertisor and the advertisee are part of the phenomenon, neither can exist without the other. > . Of course they’re both “part of the phenomenon”. What is the relevance of that statement? It doesn’t refute anything I’ve said thus far. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/42 "2010-03-29T00:01:03Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Whenever it comes across my consciousness again, I’m reminded just how much I hate this practice. It ties into the idea that there are never enough profits for a business (controlled, reasonable growth isn’t enough - you must do WHATEVER IT TAKES to make more money), and the idea that I (the consumer) must be bombarded and bothered everywhere I go and in everything I do by advertising. It also ties into the idea of **stuff**. Everyone needs stuff; the problem comes in with how much **stuff** you actually **need** (as compared to what you **want** ). I don’t think people should just blindly acquire **stuff** - I’d much prefer people think about **stuff** before they bring it into their lives (“Do I need it? Will I get a good use out of it? Can I get it a better way, like renting it for the odd use?” etc.). Damn hippie. Doncha know that the whole point of life is acquiring and consuming as much as possible? And how are we supposed to know what to acquire and consume if the advertisers don’t tell us? C’mon, **Cat Whisperer**. You _need_ a Thneed! ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/43 "2010-03-29T01:02:03Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I read an interesting idea; that advertising way back when used to be to let people know what was available and from whom. Modern advertising/marketing doesn’t take such a passive approach; they will create the need in you, then fill it for you (for a price). Do you actually have good reason to believe that advertising “back when” was fundamentally more honest than advertising today? If so, can you share that evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/44 "2010-03-29T01:14:48Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Consider something like a cell phone. Suppose you used regular phones all the time, but had never heard of a cell phone. You didn’t feel its absence, because you didn’t know it existed. Then someone explains to you what a cell phone is, and how for a hundred-odd dollars a month you can have one. Now you know you can have one, for a price, and you know it would be a help to you, even though before you heard about it, you didn’t feel a need for one. > > Did the guy who told you about the cell phone do you a favor? It’s not clear to me either way, but hearing about “cell phones” is unavoidable. I try to cultivate a state of mind that lets me hear about “cell phones” and remain neutral - not resent the fact that someone told me, but also not just mindlessly go out and buy one. Before cell phones existed, people probably _did_ wish they could have portable phones from time to time, they just didn’t have the knowledge and skills to figure out how to make it happen. Once someone came along and figured out how to do it, the advantages of having one were obvious to anyone. Your logic is flawed in assuming that nobody would have wanted a cell phone before they heard about their existence. It’s not that demand for cell phones was artificially created; the latent demand was always there whether people realized it or not. It only became tangible once they saw with their own eyes that they were able to realize that demand. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/45 "2010-03-29T01:43:11Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Before cell phones existed, people probably _did_ wish they could have portable phones from time to time, they just didn’t have the knowledge and skills to figure out how to make it happen. Once someone came along and figured out how to do it, the advantages of having one were obvious to anyone. Your logic is flawed in assuming that nobody would have wanted a cell phone before they heard about their existence. > > It’s not that demand for cell phones was artificially created; the latent demand was always there whether people realized it or not. It only became tangible once they saw with their own eyes that they were able to realize that demand. While this is true enough, advertising for cell phones was not “Here’s our cell phone, please buy it if you have a use for it”, but rather “Here’s our cell phone, not only do you need a cell phone, you are not cool if you don’t have our brand of cell phone, and frankly, you are a moron if you buy any other brand of cell phone - your friends will laugh at you.” The OP’s mention of bottled water is _precisely_ this type of advertising to the ignorant and suggestible. Tap water in the U.S. and Canada is perfectly healthy and perfectly safe yet advertisements for bottled water has succeeded in casting the impression that if you drink tap water, you will die. Oddly enough, those ads don’t mention that bottled water is, with the exception of Perrier and the like, tap water. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/46 "2010-03-29T02:18:08Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > What about advertising that’s targeted toward young children, and getting them to nag their parents into buying stuff? Is that also based off of perfectly rational choice on the part of consumers? The parents are free to say “no”. If the argument is that we should be better about enforcing truth in advertising, OK, I’m on board. “Manufactured demand”? Can’t say it bothers me much. If someone wants to try to sell their glittery deodorant, let 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/47 "2010-03-29T03:08:26Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > \. So, you only object to propaganda/marketing for things you disagree with Manufactured demand is more than simple advertising, and yeah, I object more to things I disagree with, like just about every other human being. > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Of course they’re both “part of the phenomenon”. What is the relevance of that statement? It doesn’t refute anything I’ve said thus far. But I’m (like a lot of people) not in the dance by my own choice - have you ever thought about what it would take to opt out of all the various forms of advertising we are subjected to in North America? At this point, I don’t think it can actually be done. > [@BlackKnight](#): > > Do you actually have good reason to believe that advertising “back when” was fundamentally more honest than advertising today? > > If so, can you share that evidence? Yeah - the second sentence in the link in my OP. > [@Yookeroo](#): > > The parents are free to say “no”. > > If the argument is that we should be better about enforcing truth in advertising, OK, I’m on board. “Manufactured demand”? Can’t say it bothers me much. If someone wants to try to sell their glittery deodorant, let 'em. But it’s nowhere near a level playing field. Advertisers (and I think the ones targeting children and parents are some of the most egregious for this) know _exactly_ which buttons to push to make you buy their product; the added component to manufactured demand is that they are the ones who installed them in the first place. There’s a substantive difference between, “Hey, did you know we have quick, cheap meals available for your kids?” and, “You’re a bad parent if you don’t take your kids to McDonald’s.” ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/48 "2010-03-29T03:18:57Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > While this is true enough, advertising for cell phones was not “Here’s our cell phone, please buy it if you have a use for it”, but rather “Here’s our cell phone, not only do you need a cell phone, you are not cool if you don’t have our brand of cell phone, and frankly, you are a moron if you buy any other brand of cell phone - your friends will laugh at you.” I hate this type of advertising. One of the worst I’ve seen was some car company, shilling for an SUV. The ad showed a bunch of men in a gym working out. Over the loudspeaker came an announcement that a minivan parked in the parking lot had left their lights on. Nobody wanted to own up to the fact that the minivan was theirs, instead, just looking around with looks on their faces like “who’s the idiot with a _minivan_?” or “gawd, not mine!” I guess because it’s uncool to own a minivan. Fuck that. I don’t own a car at all, but I’d think that minivans are handy and economical if you have a family. I don’t know what the car company was, which is kind of a shame because I would want to avoid that company if I ever did decide to get a vehicle. > [@Frank](#): > > The OP’s mention of bottled water is _precisely_ this type of advertising to the ignorant and suggestible. Tap water in the U.S. and Canada is perfectly healthy and perfectly safe yet advertisements for bottled water has succeeded in casting the impression that if you drink tap water, you will die. Oddly enough, those ads don’t mention that bottled water is, with the exception of Perrier and the like, tap water. In some places the water may well kill you, and if there’s no water fountain nearby, it’s nice that you can buy water when you’re REALLY thirsty. But yeah, I’m appalled at the number of plastic bottles that get used and thrown away each year. I buy a bottle of water and then re-use the bottle by filling it up with filtered water. I drink a lot of water, so I have a lot of bottles that I keep re-filling, but I’ve bought less than 10 bottles in the last 10 years. I have some bottles that are at least 15 years old, and I don’t want to hear about how that’s so unhealthy/dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/49 "2010-03-29T03:21:30Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > What is the relevance of that statement? It doesn’t refute anything I’ve said thus far. Oh good grief **Lab.** It ain’t all about the sanctity of your cotton pickin argument. (72 point flashing :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/50 "2010-03-29T03:30:08Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You don’t _need_ one, and you were functioning just fine without one, but now that you have one, it’s kind of nice (and now you can pay for it every month like a good little consumer). But you didn’t have a need for it; I guess this would qualify as an artificial need; you like it now that you’ve experienced it, but you didn’t need it. What silly bullshit. Since when do I have to stick to things I need? I want my cell phone. I love it. It’s totally worth the hours I have to work per month in order to pay for it. Oh, but since **Cat Whisperer** says I’m better off without it, I guess I must be. I guess I should just check in with **CW** every time I want to make a purchase to see if she approves. It’s like you’re advertising that you’re a better decision-maker than me because you’re immune to people telling you their a better decision-maker than you. How ridiculously meta. > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I think \*\*moat \*\*people put a great deal of thought behind their purchases. As do we surface dwellers, I think. Anyone who says that others are [sheeple](http://xkcd.com/610/)automatically lose all of my respect. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/51 "2010-03-29T04:10:45Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] Suppose I pick up a rock off the street and approach you with it. I tell you stories about the rock, associate the rock with other things you like, and convince you that this rock is of great value. Indeed, you find yourself desiring the rock enough to offer to purchase it from me. You buy it, and because of how I’ve made you feel about the rock, it gives you pleasure to own it more or less in proportion to the amount of money you gave me. [/QUOTE] Want rock. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/52 "2010-03-29T04:11:53Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > But it’s nowhere near a level playing field. Advertisers (and I think the ones targeting children and parents are some of the most egregious for this) know _exactly_ which buttons to push to make you buy their product; the added component to manufactured demand is that they are the ones who installed them in the first place. There’s a substantive difference between, “Hey, did you know we have quick, cheap meals available for your kids?” and, “You’re a bad parent if you don’t take your kids to McDonald’s.” So what? You know exactly what buttons to push when you fight with your SO. You know exactly what buttons to push when you try to convince your boss you deserve a raise. You know exactly what buttons to push when you get your kids to clean their rooms, and you can bet your ass that I installed that particular button in the first place - personally. Everyone has an agenda. You have laid yours out clearly here. Part of being an adult is personal responsibility. We must all make our own decisions. Your wish to help people make better decisions by not allowing the expression of opinions you find personally offensive is nothing more than you pushing your own agenda. Convince people to consume less by the strength of your argument. Not by silencing your opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/53 "2010-03-29T04:23:15Z")
Don’t have time to read this thread. Need to get some new cookware. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/54 "2010-03-29T05:12:34Z")
Only on the dope would someone say “Don’t be a manipulative bitch.” And we’d have people responding “Being a manipulative bitch is fine because everyone is a manipulative bitch.” As for the stupid rock question: the only way you could manipulate me that much is if you lied somehow. The second I realized you lied, I would now be out to find a way to subvert the happiness you effectively stole from me. And I happen to have a rock in my hand. Wonder what I could do with it… Is it really hard to understand that, if you lie to get me to buy, then I’m not going to be happy when I get it. And then I’m going to blame who actually did something immoral, not myself, because I merely made a mistake. And what is manufactured demand but lying to make a person think they want something that, once they have it, they realize they don’t. If I actually wanted it, then the demand would not have been manufactured in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/55 "2010-03-29T05:29:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Don’t have time to read this thread. Need to get some new cookware. I’ve bough so many miracle slicer/dicers/mixers blenders that I don’t have room for pots and pans. But that’s ok, because if I chop up and mix stuff up enough I can pour all my meals into a cup. Now I need to look for the right cup. ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/56 "2010-03-29T07:31:33Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Want rock. [mmmm, tiger rock](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s61-pkrWiTE) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/57 "2010-03-29T07:59:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Want rock. Been there. Done that. Surely you remember [pet rocks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Rock). ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/58 "2010-03-29T11:55:31Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Oh good grief **Lab.** It ain’t all about the sanctity of your cotton pickin argument. > > (72 point flashing :rolleyes: ) Then don’t quote me, genius. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/59 "2010-03-29T13:12:10Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’ve bough so many miracle slicer/dicers/mixers blenders that I don’t have room for pots and pans. But that’s ok, because if I chop up and mix stuff up enough I can pour all my meals into a cup. I don’t buy crap from infomercials, but I often feel like I should. After all, they provide hours of entertainment. I watched the one for that Ninja blender thingy from start to finish the other day. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125/60 "2010-03-29T13:40:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Only on the dope would someone say “Don’t be a manipulative bitch.” And we’d have people responding “Being a manipulative bitch is fine because everyone is a manipulative bitch.” > > As for the stupid rock question: the only way you could manipulate me that much is if you lied somehow. The second I realized you lied, I would now be out to find a way to subvert the happiness you effectively stole from me. And I happen to have a rock in my hand. Wonder what I could do with it… > > Is it really hard to understand that, if you lie to get me to buy, then I’m not going to be happy when I get it. And then I’m going to blame who actually did something immoral, not myself, because I merely made a mistake. > > And what is manufactured demand but lying to make a person think they want something that, once they have it, they realize they don’t. If I actually wanted it, then the demand would not have been manufactured in the first place. If you were lied about a products features then it’s illegal and action should be taken. If you gave into an emotional appeal then you’re at fault - no one else. Here’s why - a pet rock may very well satisfy someone who knows perfectly well it’s just a rock but thinks it’s cute anyway. Your reaction is not everyones reaction and you do not get to dictate what everyone can buy. If you think a shiny new car will make you happy and 6 weeks after you buy it you change your mind, guess what - that fault is squarely yours. Nice way to take any personal responsibility out you spending habbits. I’m sure that work just fine in every other area of your life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-i-mentioned-lately-how-much-i-hate-manufactured-demand/534125.md?page=4)