# Have Masonic Symbols and Clues Ever Led to Treasure or an Historic Revelation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 22, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812 "2011-11-22T23:57:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![northdakotatroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@northdakotatroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/northdakotatroy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/1 "2011-11-22T23:57:47Z")
I am fascinated by history and frequently enjoy movies like National Treasure and the Da Vinci Code, but I’ve often wondered whether similar scenarios have played out in real life. I know there’s a heavy dose of fiction woven into stories like this, but how much fact? Has anyone ever followed secret Masonic symbols or codes to a fantastic treasure or revelation? ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/2 "2011-11-24T00:26:34Z")
The real problem is why anyone would do this. A cognate idea is the pirate treasure map. According to Wiki: Although buried pirate treasure is a favorite literary theme, there are very few documented cases of pirates actually burying treasure, and no documented cases of a historical pirate treasure map.[2] One documented case of buried treasure involved Francis Drake who buried Spanish gold and silver after raiding the train at Nombre de Dios – after Drake went to find his ships, he returned six hours later and retrieved the loot and sailed for England. Drake did not create a map.[2] Another case in 1720 involved British Captain Stratton of the Prince Eugene who, after supposedly trading rum with pirates in the Caribbean, buried his gold near the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay. One of his crew, Morgan Miles, turned him in to the authorities, and it is assumed the loot was recovered. In any case, Captain Stratton was not a pirate, and made no map.[2] The pirate most responsible for the legends of buried pirate treasure was Captain Kidd. The story was that Kidd buried treasure from the plundered ship the Quedah Merchant on Gardiner’s Island, near Long Island, New York, before being arrested and returned to England, where he was put through a very public trial and executed. Although much of Kidd’s treasure was recovered from various people who had taken possession of it before Kidd’s arrest (such as his wife and various others who were given it for safe keeping), there was so much public interest and fascination with the case at the time, speculation grew that a vast fortune remained and that Kidd had secretly buried it. Captain Kidd did bury a small cache of treasure on Gardiner’s Island in a spot known as Cherry Tree Field; however, it was removed by Governor Bellomont and sent to England to be used as evidence against him.[3] Over the years many people have tried to find the supposed remnants of Kidd’s treasure on Gardiner’s Island and elsewhere, but none has ever been found.[2] Over the years many people have claimed to have discovered maps and other clues that led to pirate treasure, or claim that historical maps are actually treasure maps. These claims are not supported by scholars. [edit] If even pirate treasure maps aren’t real, then the likelihood of Secret Masonic/Templar/whatever maps is even less. The most compelling reason to hide treasure is to collect it later for yourself. It is conceivable that one might tell someone acting on your behalf where it is via a map, but that requires ridiculous levels of trust. To hide a treasure for the benefit of some unknown person in the future who may nor may not share your values towards it, and then leave a cryptic series of clues to nobody in particular on the off chance that someone you would like, and no-one else, figures it out makes even less sense than pirate treasure maps. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/3 "2011-11-24T00:34:18Z")
Simple notes with an eldritch Masonic symbol, tucked into one’s mailbox frequently lead to the treasure of a crab feast. Otherwise, probably not. Conspiracy theory aside, there is little evidence that the Masons have the willingness or even wherewithal to enter into large conspiracies. The [Oak Island](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island) story is cool, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/4 "2011-11-24T01:08:47Z")
Given the number of stories about the hidden secrets of the Masons, etc., if there was ever an actual case where it really happened, don’t you think it would have been thrown in our faces on every History Channel presentation? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/5 "2011-11-24T01:40:18Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Simple notes with an eldritch Masonic symbol, tucked into one’s mailbox frequently lead to the treasure of a crab feast. Are you on the East Coast? Around here (Indiana), the most common Masonic varieties of communal food seem to be ham-and-beans, fish fry, fried chicken, and barbeque. I have never heard of a Masonic crab feast and I get email notifications for literally every Masonic event in Indiana. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/6 "2011-11-24T02:45:07Z")
Sort of the inverse of what you’re looking for, but skeptical investigator Joe Nickell has suggested that the infamous “moving coffins of Barbados” was actually a Masonic allegory, not a report of actual occurrences, and that knowing Masonic symbols and ritual helps you understand the allegory: > [@](#): > > Modern author Joe Nickell argues that none of these incidents happened in the real world.[5] The available accounts are loaded with symbols and phrases which Freemasons would recognize. Nickell, who had investigated an earlier alleged Masonic hoax involving a tale of buried treasure at Oak Island, contends the Barbados story was fashioned around the Masonic allegory of a “secret vault” which, according to a Masonic text, “was … in the ancient mysteries, symbolic of death, where alone Divine Truth is to be found … We significantly speak of the place of initiation as ‘the secret vault, where reign silence, secrecy and darkness.’ It is in this sense of an entrance through the grave into eternal life, that the Select Master is to view the recondite but beautiful symbolism of the secret vault. Like every other myth and allegory of Masonry, the historical relation may be true or it may be false; it may be founded on fact or the invention of imagination; the lesson is still there, and the symbolism teaches it exclusive of the history.” > > Nickell quotes these words from Nathan Lucas: “I examined the walls, the arch and every part of the vault and found every part old and similar; and a mason in my presence struck every part of the bottom with his hammer and all was solid.” Nickell remarks, “In the Royal Arch degree of Masonry – to which the ‘arch’ above may have been in cryptic reference (just as the ‘vault’ suggests the ‘secret vault’ which, in Masonry, is said to have been ‘curiously arched’) – there is a reference to the ‘sound of a hammer’. According to Macoy’s Illustrated History and Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, 'The blow of the Master’s hammer commands industry, silence, or the close of labour, and every brother respects or honors its sound.”’ He goes on to quote from the Royal Arch decree (“We have examined the secret vault”) and notes that the striking of stone to determine its solidness “is the means by which the secret vault is sought for and finally located!” > **[Chase Vault](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chase_Vault)** > > The Chase Vault is a burial vault in the cemetery of the Christ Church Parish Church in Oistins, Christ Church, Barbados, best known for a widespread urban legend of "mysterious moving coffins". According to the story, each time the heavily sealed marble vault had been opened for the burial of a family member including 1808, twice in 1812 and in 1816 and 1819, all of the lead coffins had changed position. The facts of the story are unverified, investigations concluding there may not be actual e... ---
**Author:** ![northdakotatroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@northdakotatroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/northdakotatroy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/7 "2011-11-24T03:19:16Z")
Thanks for your replies. I asked the question because I’m fascinated by the stories, but I’m also a skeptic. I love to read conspiracy theories and urban legends, but I find myself a disbeliever. I read stuff about the Masons, the Illuminati, and the New World Order and I’m intrigued. But does this stuff ever happen in real life? I’m starting to think it doesn’t. There are volumes of this stuff on the web, all puported to be factual, and yet nobody can cite an example of these types of mysteries being unraveled in real life. Agreed, Oak Island is interesting. And some small caches of Confederate treasure have reportedly been found by investigators who followed clues left by the Knights of the Golden Circle. But there just doesn’t seem to be any evidence at all that anyone has ever uncovered a fabulous treasure or made an amazing historical discovery based on clues, symbols, and codes left behind by the Masons. I would enjoy it if someone could offer evidence to the contrary, but I won’t hold my breath. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/8 "2011-11-24T03:32:57Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Are you on the East Coast? Around here (Indiana), the most common Masonic varieties of communal food seem to be ham-and-beans, fish fry, fried chicken, and barbeque. I have never heard of a Masonic crab feast and I get email notifications for literally every Masonic event in Indiana. West. It was chosen because the only Masonic food thing I ever went to involved crab, but I’m not inclined to think it’s typical. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/9 "2011-11-24T04:10:30Z")
Masonic symbols have some significance in the Kipling story _The Man Who Would be King_, too, if you’re interested. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/10 "2011-11-24T04:53:33Z")
Masonic signs and handshakes will get you into Mormon heaven, too. That’s got to be better than a buried treasure. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/11 "2011-11-24T04:57:17Z")
> [@northdakotatroy](#): > > Has anyone ever followed secret Masonic symbols or codes to a fantastic treasure or revelation? No. History is fascinating but not because of Hollywood movies, but because we get a glimpse of human nature and how we have so many common things with societies of the past, even though the immediate impression we have is that we are so much “advanced” even with people of only 200 years ago, which is wrong. Fiction literature is fine, but it has nothing to do with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/12 "2011-11-25T14:45:05Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Are you on the East Coast? Around here (Indiana), the most common Masonic varieties of communal food seem to be ham-and-beans, fish fry, fried chicken, and barbeque. I have never heard of a Masonic crab feast and I get email notifications for literally every Masonic event in Indiana. Around here they’re into big breakfasts, I believe. And spaghetti suppers, and sometimes barbeque. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/13 "2011-11-25T15:10:53Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Around here they’re into big breakfasts, I believe. And spaghetti suppers, and sometimes barbeque. > I have never heard of a Masonic crab feast Ahah!!–now we know… the crab feasts are so secret that only the elite who know the Masonic symbols are allowed to attend. The OP is on to something here… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/14 "2011-11-25T15:56:35Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > West. It was chosen because the only Masonic food thing I ever went to involved crab, but I’m not inclined to think it’s typical. When the Masonic conventions are in San Francisco crabs are often brought back home. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-masonic-symbols-and-clues-ever-led-to-treasure-or-an-historic-revelation/603812/15 "2011-11-25T16:22:49Z")
> [@northdakotatroy](#): > > Thanks for your replies. > > I asked the question because I’m fascinated by the stories, but I’m also a skeptic. I love to read conspiracy theories and urban legends, but I find myself a disbeliever. > > I read stuff about the Masons, the Illuminati, and the New World Order and I’m intrigued. If you haven’t read Umberto Eco’s _Foucault’s Pendulum_, you’re in for a treat. It’s one of my favorite books, and a masterpiece of the genre. Now I’m off to the “I can’t believe I never heard of…” thread. Captain Kidd was a real pirate operating out of New York City?!