# Have political purges ever succeeded for a society? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2024, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195 "2024-03-22T11:33:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/81 "2024-03-28T11:38:18Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > " In [history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History), [religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) and [political science](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_science), a **purge** is a position removal or [execution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution) of people who are considered undesirable by those in power from a government, another organization, their team leaders, or society as a whole." By the time Louis (and the bulk of the 1st and 2nd Estates) was purged, the Assembly _was_ the government, and in power for a couple years already. And with that, I actually am done with this thread. Your reply sent me a notification, so I guess muting this thread is the next recourse. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/82 "2024-03-28T12:51:42Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Well, I’m afraid the OP was wrong. A “purge” is a “top down” phenomenon. To be clear though the OPer @Whack-a-Mole was pretty clear he was specifically talking about the purge of the reign of terror not the wider French revolution: > [@Have political purges ever succeeded for a society?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/46): > > Was the reign of terror the thing that prevent a French monarchy from being re-established? I thought the monarchy was well done by then and this was a fight over what a future government (not a monarchy) would look like. Its only @MrDibble that has conflated the two and insisted on sidetracking the discussion into whether the wider French revolution was a success. Which is not going to be settled here, it’s one of the great debates of European history. The actual question the OP asked is much simpler to answer. The great terror was absolutely 100% not a success for anyone involved, neither the revolutionaries, the revolution or French society as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/83 "2024-03-28T20:46:55Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Well, I’m afraid the OP was wrong. A “purge” is a “top down” phenomenon. The people in power get rid of dissident or even potentially dangerous individuals and groups in the population they control, thus solidifying that power. Except that is what really happened during the Reign of Terror. It started out as a revolution, then turned into a purge, even for minor spiteful personal grudges. > [@griffin1977](#): > > The actual question the OP asked is much simpler to answer. The great terror was absolutely 100% not a success for anyone involved, neither the revolutionaries, the revolution or French society as a whole. Right. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/84 "2024-04-01T00:53:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I was wondering if a political purge has ever achieved the goals they set out to do? Certainly, they are often a means to keep power for those few at the top. But, usually, they are advertised as a means to a “better” society. Clear out the malcontents and riff-raff and there will be a golden age. I guess the Night of the Long Knives was successful in 1934 Germany. It didn’t last forever, because Germany was defeated in WW2. But if they had not had a WW2, and let’s say they’d stopped grabbing land after the deal to get the Sudetenland in 1938, Germany might have settled in for a long period of stability within their own country. No one wanted a war with Germany at that point. But that wasn’t enough for Hitler, as he wanted Lebensraum in the East, and he wanted to annihilate the Jews…and the rest is history, as they say. But the Night of the Long Knives seemed to remove all of his potential political opposition. I would say it was successful, and Hitler’s ruin was from activities afterward, not from the purge itself. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/85 "2024-04-08T01:52:02Z")
1945-50 had the largest mass migration in human history. [The partition of India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India) had 1 million deaths and 10-20 million displaced. I presume the latter was related to the former and that this is not atypical. Jews fled Europe. [13.5 to 16.5 million German speakers fled central Europe after WWII](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion): deaths number 300,000 to 3 million. 1.5 million Polish people were deported from newly Sovietized territories starting in 1944. Millions of Japanese speakers were expelled from [Sakhalin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakhalin_Koreans), China, and Taiwan. All this seems relevant, though we will have to define “purge”, “succeed”, and “society”. ETA: Stalin’s purges worked out well for the surviving middle class. Purges create a number of job openings after all. I understand there has been some scholarly work on this. Cite: Red Plenty. [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18634818-red-plenty](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18634818-red-plenty) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/86 "2024-04-08T02:19:36Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Stalin’s purges worked out well for the surviving middle class. As Dirty Harry _almost_ said: > [@Inspector Callaghan](#): > > Nuthin’ wrong with purgin’ … > 'Long as the right people get purged. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/87 "2024-04-08T11:30:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except that is what really happened during the Reign of Terror. It started out as a revolution, then turned into a purge, even for minor spiteful personal grudges. As the French revolution advanced, the guillotine began to claim the heads of a number of the original revolutionaries themselves. So can’t the same thing be said about the French revolution and, in fact, many revolutions? If rebels do succeed, their next logical concern and project is keeping power, so I can see how a revolution can morph into a purge. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/88 "2024-04-09T09:35:28Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > As the French revolution advanced, the guillotine began to claim the heads of a number of the original revolutionaries themselves. So can’t the same thing be said about the French revolution and, in fact, many revolutions? If rebels do succeed, their next logical concern and project is keeping power, so I can see how a revolution can morph into a purge. The American Revolution was unique in that it took almost a century for the winners to turn on themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/89 "2024-04-09T19:42:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The American Revolution was unique in that it took almost a century for the winners to turn on themselves. Pretty much by that time all the “winners” were dead. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2024, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195/90 "2024-04-11T05:52:41Z")
_[Mutatis mutandis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutatis_mutandis)_, DrDeth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-political-purges-ever-succeeded-for-a-society/999195.md?page=4)