# Have Pseudophed restrictions worked? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 22, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532 "2009-11-22T16:27:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532/21 "2009-11-23T16:42:42Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > The restrictions have been partially successful in returning antihistames that DON’T have freaking pseudoephedrine in them to the OTC drug racks. Yes, now there are a half-dozen varieties of jacksquatocil on the shelves… ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532/22 "2009-11-23T18:36:07Z")
**AHunter3** said: > [@](#): > > I can get diphenhydramine. I can get chlorpheniramine. I can’t find brompheniramine (former OTC brandname: Dimetane) anywhere though. The variant that had pseudoephedrine in it (OTC brandname: DimeTAPP) drove the straight-up antihistamine off the shelves. Have you tried looking for other brand names, like Lodrane, or BroveX? ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532/23 "2009-11-23T20:57:39Z")
The goal of the original, local/state laws was to reduce local meth production, because the labs were a hazard to emergency responders and an unwanted expense to local taxpayers. These were demonstrably effective at reducing local, informal, dangerous meth production and became popular. “Oklahoma was the first state to restrict access to pseudoephedrine, and the results were dramatic: the first month the law was in force, Oklahoma experienced a forty-five percent reduction in the number of methamphetamine laboratories seized by law enforcement” (from here [http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi\_0199-6563895/One-stop-no-stop-two.html](http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-6563895/One-stop-no-stop-two.html)) Pages 5 and 6 here also do a good job of discussing the “small toxic labs” issue: [http://www.paindr.com/Pseudoephedrine.pdf](http://www.paindr.com/Pseudoephedrine.pdf) However, with each state implementing its own, the logical conclusion would be to concentrate meth production in whichever US state was last to implement. This led to national legislation in 2005 (pages 9-10 of the link above discuss rationale), which has been effective at moving meth production out of the US, primarily to Mexico. Since the original intent was around reducing risks to emergency responders and local tax expenses for dealing with the dangers of small scale meth labs, the laws are generally considered a success in that regard. There \*might \*be an argument that the larger labs in Mexico, a country with fewer law enforcement resources, have had enough negative consequences there and here that it would actually be better to have the manufacturing take place in the US. But with statistics like this “For example, at any given time, between 30% and 90% of burn patients at Arkansas Children’s Hospital are being treated for injuries caused by meth lab explosions.” (from the link above) no one really wants meth production in their backyard. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532/24 "2009-11-24T04:35:25Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > **AHunter3** said: > > Have you tried looking for other brand names, like Lodrane, or BroveX? Yes, but thanks for mentioning some I was not familiar with! ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532/25 "2009-11-24T11:22:18Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > I wonder if there have been any studies to see if other production methods of meth have increased. I’m no expert (let’s be honest, it mostly comes from watching _Breaking Bad_,) but if that show is to believed, you can use methylamine instead of pseudoephedrine, albiet with a slightly different method. So are all the people who used to buy/steal pseudo now buying/stealing methylamine? I imagine it might be harder to get, cause it’s an industrial chemical, but if you can manage to get a barel of it, that would make a LOT of meth, cmpared to a couple pounds of decongestant. Methylamine is a gas and is often sold as a 40% solution in water, which is the form I use when converting a phthalimide to a primary amine (and the only time I’ve ever used the stuff.) I can normally get a chemical from Aldrich in a day or two. The freaking DEA means that it takes a week to get something like methylamine. What’s annoying is that Pfizer is sitting on the patent for the other enantiomer of pseudoephedrine and has not put in an application to the FDA. That enantiomer should be a better drug overall with the added bonus of not being useful in meth production. It’d be another decade before the patent expires and someone else could bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532/26 "2009-11-24T19:53:05Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > What the laws drove off the shelves were the antihistamines (diphenhydramine, chlorphenarmine, etc.) _combined_ with an _effective_ decongestant (That Sudafed PE stuff can bite me!) Exactly, but if you want “straight-up” antihistamines, then that’s what Benadryl, etc., are. Instead of requiring the photo ID, maybe they should have just made pseudoephedrine a controlled substance with the proviso that the pharmacist could write the prescription. That way we could still buy it OTC but the controls of triplicate prescription requirements would be in place to monitor and track. ---
**Author:** ![Fridgemagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/22d042/32.png) [@Fridgemagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fridgemagnet)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532/27 "2009-11-24T22:10:31Z")
OTC in most British chemists, or even off-the-shelf in some supermarkets, though the maximum pack size is now 12 (used to be 24). I’ve occasionally had pharmacists query my request for 2 packs of 12, so I just tell them it’s only a little crystal meth lab I’ve got\*. They still sell it to me. It is, however, highly illegal in Japan, as it’s the perfect abusable drug for an overworked people with a snot taboo. I didn’t know this when I used to visit Japan regularly, and would have a stash in my briefcase that I would dig into during business meetings to ward off jet lag and sniffles. I was horrified when I found out the legal status, as I could have quite innocently got myself into a whole world of woe.\*\* - UK Police: Not really. \*\* Japanese Police: An honest mistake. Come and get me. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532/28 "2009-11-25T16:18:25Z")
> [@Fridgemagnet](#): > > It is, however, highly illegal in Japan, as it’s the perfect abusable drug for an overworked people with a snot taboo. Interesting. Is it pseudoephedrine itself that is illegal as a drug of abuse, or is it illegal as a precusor to meth like in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Fridgemagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/22d042/32.png) [@Fridgemagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fridgemagnet)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532/29 "2009-11-25T20:37:37Z")
**Harriet** , it’s the pseudoephedrine itself that’s classed as an abusable stimulant in Japan. With virtually-impossible-to-obtain permission medicines with up to 10% pseudoephedrine are grudgingly allowed ([US embassy link](http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-medimport.html)). The Japanese authorities don’t like codeine phosphate much either - I’ve enough of that on me right now (legit prescription) to rot in a Japanese jail for years. Thinking about it, I probably had some OTC Nurofen Plus (ibuprofen and codeine) on me in Japan too. Eek. I was a model citizen before I fell in with that delinquent cetacean crowd. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-pseudophed-restrictions-worked/518532.md?page=1)