# Have the recent scandals screwed the Dems for the mid terms? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 16, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517 "2013-05-16T16:04:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/161 "2013-05-22T19:34:24Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > I > I’ve spent a good portion of my life hiring and promoting people, and I can say I have never heard of any such an unambiguous formula. I also realize that while it’s easier to determine if someone has met the qualifications for a position (hence “qualified”, in which case there’s no such thing as “more/less qualified”), figuring out the “best candidate” is a whole lot murkier and involves considering what’s “best” for me and my organization’s success. So considerations like “will this candidate diversify my workforce/college class/etc.” will most definitely figure into the evaluation–unless of course you’re a racist, which is kinda the whole point of the law. That’s a fairly benign-sounding explanation that in reality isn’t so benign. First, you make it sound as if failure to be race conscious is racist. Second, you act as if someone’s racial characteristics will create more success for you than a candidate with different racial characteristics. And anyway, the point is that workers tend to know who is doing the actual work in any organization. Workers also tend to know how race conscious their employer is. When the guy who keeps on asking you for help and has come to depend on you ends up getting promoted over you, you know it wasn’t because they were the better worker. When you see that certain groups are favored over other groups, that will tend to piss you off. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/162 "2013-05-22T20:42:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, on the IRS scandal, it actually is worse if the administration is telling the truth, and the President doesn’t know what’s going on. I totally believe that, if it turns out the President knew about it and didn’t tell anyone, you’ll say, “Oh, that’s not as bad as I thought. Ignore my previous warnings about how bad this is!” Yep. Totally believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/163 "2013-05-22T21:00:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I totally believe that, if it turns out the President knew about it and didn’t tell anyone, you’ll say, “Oh, that’s not as bad as I thought. Ignore my previous warnings about how bad this is!” Yep. Totally believe it. What I like to call “auto-wrong”-Obama is automatically wrong, no matter what the answer is. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/164 "2013-05-22T21:14:10Z")
> [@](#): > > When the guy who keeps on asking you for help and has come to depend on you ends up getting promoted over you, you know it wasn’t because they were the better worker. Or maybe you just have an incorrect notion of what “better worker” entails. Maybe he’s a better team player, or better at interacting with the customers, or works longer hours. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/165 "2013-05-22T22:00:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, on the IRS scandal, it actually is worse if the administration is telling the truth, and the President doesn’t know what’s going on. Is this coming from that totally realistic perspective where the federal government of a world superpower of over 300 million people can be micromanaged by one person? ---
**Author:** ![6079smithW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/db5fbb/32.png) [@6079smithW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6079smithW)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/166 "2013-05-22T23:12:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If you had higher scores than someone who did get in because of racial preferences, that will tend to make you dislike racial preferences. that’s perfectly rational. > > Same goes for promotions in companies. get passed over enough despite being better qualified and that will change your views as well. > > What, did you think whites moving steadily more and more into the GOP camp was coincidence? A statistical abberation? Yes, it is only rational to assume the mantle of White Christian victimhood. Couldn’t be because your college application essay sucked. Or because you weren’t as “better qualified” for promotion as you thought you were. Oh no, it’s got to be “racial preferences,” obvs. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/167 "2013-05-23T10:54:32Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > Is this coming from that totally realistic perspective where the federal government of a world superpower of over 300 million people can be micromanaged by one person? The system worked all the way up to the chief of staff. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/168 "2013-05-23T10:55:33Z")
> [@6079smithW](#): > > Yes, it is only rational to assume the mantle of White Christian victimhood. Couldn’t be because your college application essay sucked. Or because you weren’t as “better qualified” for promotion as you thought you were. > > Oh no, it’s got to be “racial preferences,” obvs. :rolleyes: If there weren’t racial preferences in reality, it would be whining. You can’t have it both ways. There either are racial preferences, in which case whites and Asians and Jews are at a disadvantage, or there aren’t, in which case they are whiners when they fail to qualify and a minority gets in ahead of them. Which is it? When California banned racial preferences in university admissions, Bill Clinton whined that California universities would contain mostly whites and Asians. Which implies that racial preferences exclude whites and Asians who would otherwise be qualified to get into those universities. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/169 "2013-05-23T10:59:27Z")
While African American graduation rates at UC Berkeley increased by 6.5 percent,[2] the enrollment rates dropped significantly.[3] Criticism was made of the fact that of the 4,422 students in UCLA’s freshman class of 2006, only 100 (2.26%) were African American.[4] In fact, opponents of Proposition 209 note that there are greater disparities in elite education in the post-Proposition 209 era due to decreased African American and Latino enrollment. Proponents, on the other hand, note that Asian American enrollment rates dramatically increased at a majority of UC campuses.[5] > **[1996 California Proposition 209 | Results](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_209#Results)** > > On November 5, 1996, the Los Angeles Times conducted an exit poll of 2,473 voters who cast ballots in the general election at 40 polling places. The margin of error was 3 percent (higher for subgroups). The following is the exit poll data on Proposition 209: ---
**Author:** ![6079smithW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/db5fbb/32.png) [@6079smithW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6079smithW)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/170 "2013-05-23T13:00:53Z")
Statistics are cute, but how is any individual person supposed to determine that they are, indeed, a “victim” of a racial preference that somehow prevented them from going to college and making something of themselves? Even to consider the notion is whining. A person who is clinging to the notion that Whites and Asians are at a disadvantage in America, in order to justify their failures, is truly a welfare queen. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/171 "2013-05-23T13:16:19Z")
Goalposts…goalposts…ah, there they are, over in the “affirmative action” section. I could have sworn they started out in the “political scandals” area, way over there. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/172 "2013-05-23T13:24:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The system worked all the way up to the chief of staff. What’s your problem, then? The system worked. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/173 "2013-05-23T13:35:17Z")
> [@6079smithW](#): > > Statistics are cute, but how is any individual person supposed to determine that they are, indeed, a “victim” of a racial preference that somehow prevented them from going to college and making something of themselves? Even to consider the notion is whining. A person who is clinging to the notion that Whites and Asians are at a disadvantage in America, in order to justify their failures, is truly a welfare queen. So people who fail, it’s their own fault and they shouldn’t blame the system. I can live with that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/174 "2013-05-23T14:05:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So people who fail, it’s their own fault and they shouldn’t blame the system. I can live with that. Not a very accurate reinterpretation…as expected. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/175 "2013-05-23T14:34:08Z")
The facts are the facts. We know that after Prop 209, more Asians and whites got into California public colleges than did previously. That means that before Prop 209, fewer got in who were otherwise qualified except for the fact that their race was “wrong”. In other words, thousands of students were discriminated against. But it’s probably a good thing for Democrats. If Asians had been excluded from the best schools for much longer, it would have pushed them into the GOP camp. Jerry Brown further helped the Dems cause by vetoing a legislative attempt to overturn Prop 209. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/176 "2013-05-23T14:36:27Z")
Asians will join the GOP _en masse_ when pigs fly, and not before. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/177 "2013-05-23T14:51:38Z")
Why not? It’s the Democrats who discriminate against them, not the GOP. And furthermore, it’s only the Democrats that keep on getting busted for racial gaffes having to do with Asians. Of course, since the media doesn’t lead with the gaffes like they do when Republicans misspeak, it doesn’t go anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/178 "2013-05-23T15:33:12Z")
It’s so cute when you act all persecuted and shit. “It’s not _fair_ that the media aren’t reporting the things I think they should report in the way I think they should report them! Just because all the other scandals I said should have been front page news blasting Obama turned out to be damp squibs that actually highlighted Republican incompetence doesn’t mean I’m wrong about _this_ one!” Seriously, dude, at this point we’d believe Sylvia Brown over you. Also, when your argument is that “I’m not racist; it’s just that minorities are all too stupid to understand that they’re being discriminated against by the Democrats” it needs work. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/179 "2013-05-23T15:50:13Z")
Well, they aren’t discriminated against anymore in California. That’s a good thing, wouldn’t you agree? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517/180 "2013-05-23T16:05:32Z")
So your point is that a Democrat blocked a discriminatory legislative proposal (I assume proposed by Democrats) and therefore this proves that the Democrats are discriminatory? Why doesn’t it also prove that Democrats are anti-discriminatory? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-recent-scandals-screwed-the-dems-for-the-mid-terms/658517.md?page=10)