# Have the standards of manhood today gone to the dogs? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 23, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421 "2016-12-23T02:28:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/61 "2016-12-23T07:41:00Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Pegasisters. Which nobody uses, because it’s long and annoying, and easier to just refer to everyone as bronies. Yeah, that’s too much. Pity they’re not called Stonys though. I might have to actually watch the show in that case. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/62 "2016-12-23T13:43:46Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’m being mocked on my manliness by a guy who doesn’t like boobs. > > _Weird_. I like breasts au naturale, not modified to proportions that only exist in real life when you’re an infant suckling a mother’s teat. > [@](#): > > What, because I can’t enjoy an interesting, well-written, well-animated TV show without giving up my “man card”? Well let’s just say this - I can guarantee you the number of ‘internet Bronies’ who double as card-carrying NAMBLA members is a tad higher than the general population. As far as the quality of the show, I have no idea. But I can grantee you as many Bronies watch the show for the ‘quality’ as there are men who read Playboy for the fashion articles. > [@](#): > > Hey, some of them get off on that. And that’s okay too - it also doesn’t make them less of men. True, it just makes them less of human. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/63 "2016-12-23T13:50:28Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > Wow we should bow down to the ultimate male … > > So because men don’t live up to the ideal of the 40s/50s john wayne masters of their universes stereotypical male their worthless ? > > Hate to tell you but not many did back then either and todays sitcoms came from 30s/40s radio courtesy of the manly men writers back then > > I suppose since trump’s elected well be getting the brain dead " I am white alpha male hear me roar " chest thumpers more and more Trump’s not really an alpha male, he’s all talk. Best he could do was snatch up a trophy wife who’d probably date Sheldon Cooper if he had enough dough. He’s definitely no Casanova like he makes himself out to be. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/64 "2016-12-23T13:57:16Z")
Hey, I remember when I was a dumbass in my 20s. Thanks for reminding me, **Jack!** ---
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/65 "2016-12-23T14:02:16Z")
I probably shouldn’t jump into this morass, but what the hell. I’m a damn sight older than you are **Calico Jack**. Not so old as to be of the “Greatest Generation,” but old enough to have grown up when there were still very specific “standards” for “masculinity.” Here’s what I’ve learned about what makes a Real Man[sup]TM[/sup]: [ul] [li]Love your family. Put their needs ahead of your own most of the time.[/li][li]Be honest. Not say-anything-that-comes-to-your-fool-head-regardless-of-others’-feelings honest, but honest nonetheless.[/li][li]Have a few very good friends. Be as good a friend to them as you want them to be to you. Maybe better.[/li][li]Have integrity. Make sure people can judge the book by it’s cover. Embody trustworthiness.[/li][li]Be polite and kind to your fellow human beings.[/li][li]Never stop learning. You don’t know it all, and you never will. Only a fool disdains the accumulation of knowledge.[/li][/ul] Notice anything about that list? It’s not gender specific. And it has nothing to do with your hobbies, the way you dress, or the television shows you watch. Real Men[sup]TM[/sup] don’t allow themselves to be defined by the vagaries of societal norms, and they sure as shit don’t think that mocking or deriding someone else’s choice of leisure activities or personal interests is a Manly[sup]TM[/sup] thing to do. That’s what emotionally-stunted, heads-up-their-own-asses Man-Children[sup]TM[/sup] do. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/66 "2016-12-23T14:12:23Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > I like breasts au naturale, not modified to proportions that only exist in real life when you’re an infant suckling a mother’s teat. _And I like something I can wrap around my cock_. Not a hard concept; titwanks are awesome and very hard to do effectively if you’re smaller than a DD cup. > [@](#): > > Well let’s just say this - I can guarantee you the number of ‘internet Bronies’ who double as card-carrying NAMBLA members is a tad higher than the general population. Based on what? How does that even make sense? Did you watch that stupid Rucka Rucka Ali parody and take it as gospel truth? > [@](#): > > As far as the quality of the show, I have no idea. But I can grantee you as many Bronies watch the show for the ‘quality’ as there are men who read Playboy for the fashion articles. Again, _based on what_? Seriously, if you want to take a moment to fight some ignorance, spend a moment and just watch a few episodes from the show. “Lesson Zero”, maybe, or “Swarm of the Century”. You’re calling out a massive group of people bound together by exactly one quality: they enjoy a really good TV show. You might as well claim that being a Breaking Bad fan makes you more likely to cook meth. It’s stupid and prejudiced and based on nothing. Seasons 1 and 2 of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic hold up really, really well. Like, “worth mentioning in the same sentence as Avatar: The Last Airbender and Gravity Falls” well. Why do you feel the need to judge a large group of people you clearly know next to nothing about? > [@](#): > > True, it just makes them less of human. Actually, I’d say dehumanizing people for interests or fetishes they possess that cause no harm whatsoever makes someone less of a human. But that’s just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/67 "2016-12-23T14:34:23Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > _And I like something I can wrap around my cock_. Not a hard concept; titwanks are awesome and very hard to do effectively if you’re smaller than a DD cup. Heh, wonder how men managed to survive for most of human history without convincing women to alter their breasts to abnormally large proportions just to fulfill some adolescent fetish. If you want something to wrap around your cock, you can buy a ‘fleshlight’. Prior to the 1970s or so porn and smut was much more strictly regulated, and men had higher testosterone levels and were much healthier than they are today, go figure. > [@](#): > > Seriously, if you want to take a moment to fight some ignorance, spend a moment and just watch a few episodes from the show. “Lesson Zero”, maybe, or “Swarm of the Century”. You’re calling out a massive group of people bound together by exactly one quality: they enjoy a really good TV show. They enjoy it for it’s masturbatory aid, not for it’s goodness. And I can guarantee you that even if it’s “good” by the low standards by which children’s cartoons have to meet, it’s certainly no Breaking Bad. The reason they watch it is the same reason the “goth kids” dress up like Vampires on South Park, because they fancy themselves social misfits and just enjoy the negative attention. > [@](#): > > You might as well claim that being a Breaking Bad fan makes you more likely to cook meth. It’s stupid and prejudiced and based on nothing. Feel free to show many any serious critic who compares the show to Breaking Bad. I’m sure there’s someone somewhere on the internet who’s going to argue that Barney and Friends is really some deep existential treatise, but, get real please. > [@](#): > > Actually, I’d say dehumanizing people for interests or fetishes they possess that cause no harm whatsoever makes someone less of a human. But that’s just my opinion. They do indeed cause harm to the self and society. Chaos theory proves there’s no such thing as an action one can do in complete isolation. So in pure albeit unlikely theory, a man fantasizing about his wife being plowded by another man could cause an earthquake on the West Coast Therefore it’s my duty to be concerned about their abberant behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/68 "2016-12-23T14:37:51Z")
Ah, you speak with the refreshing boldness of the ignorant. Get a twitter account and start planning your run for president. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/69 "2016-12-23T14:39:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ah, you speak with the refreshing boldness of the ignorant. Get a twitter account and start planning your run for president. Can’t think of anything more ignorant than comparing MLP to Breaking Bad. Bet you’re going to argue that Teletubbies is on par with Citizen Kane and the Godfather next. Like I said show many any notable critic who agrees, and prove you aren’t simply speaking of your own ignorance and adolescent opinions. If you want to watch MLP, then go ahead and watch it by all means. Just do yourself a favor and admit you just like kid’s shows instead of trying to convince people you watch it for some deep existential message worthy of study by analytic philosophers, c’mon. I like watching Looney Tunes, but I don’t try to pretend I watch it for some deep philosophical purpose, I just like watching Bugs Bunny beat Elmer Fudd over the head with a baseball bat. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/70 "2016-12-23T14:41:11Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I am not really sure it is a troll. It is too much of a faggoty, artless dumbfuck to be an actual troll. Faggoty is an acceptable term to call someone on this board? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/71 "2016-12-23T14:41:27Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Can’t think of anything more ignorant than comparing MLP to Breaking Bad. > > Bet you’re going to argue that Teletubbies is on par with Citizen Kane and the Godfather next. > > Like I said show many any notable critic who agrees, and prove you aren’t simply speaking of your own ignorance and adolescent opinions. Ah, you’re concentrating on the magic box and its pretty moving pictures, instead of recognizing that _everything_ you say is boldly ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/72 "2016-12-23T14:44:42Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ah, you’re concentrating on the magic box and its pretty moving pictures, instead of recognizing that _everything_ you say is boldly ignorant. Everything I say is based on fact, you’re welcome to point out notable critics who say that MLP is on par with Breaking Bad or Mad Men, but you can’t because none exist outside of 4chan. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/73 "2016-12-23T14:46:53Z")
Other than the “eye-phone” reference our troll seems to have copied some grampa’s rant from fifteen years ago. Nobody gives a flying rat’s ass about Britney Spears anymore and “The Man Show” ceased production in 2004. Stupid fucker couldn’t even copy something relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/74 "2016-12-23T15:01:49Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Everything I say is based on fact Hah, thanks for the chuckle. > [@](#): > > you’re welcome to point out notable critics who say that MLP is on par with Breaking Bad or Mad Men Who cares about the critics? Is it a matter of personal taste or not? Anyway, you invoked the bronies as part of your larger tapestry that modern (American?) culture is a pussified shadow of its former self, and that displays an ignorance on your part so profound that you well deserve the mockery you are receiving. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/75 "2016-12-23T15:13:16Z")
You lost me at “hunkie dorie”. ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/76 "2016-12-23T15:13:56Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Like I said show many any notable critic who agrees, and prove you aren’t simply speaking of your own ignorance and adolescent opinions. A critic’s review is still an opinion, like any other. It does not become a statement of fact just because the person has some notoriety. I’ve never seen either show, but I’m not such an arrogant ass as to think I have any right to tell others what forms of entertainment they should or should not enjoy. And unless you have seen both shows, any comparison or contrast you try to make might as well be talking out of your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/77 "2016-12-23T15:26:54Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > A critic’s review is still an opinion, like any other. It does not become a statement of fact just because the person has some notoriety. Nor does some neckbeard on 4chan claiming that MLP is as deep as Citizen Kane. And no, if everything is completely opinion, there would be no need for critics like Roger Ebert. Someone’s free to “like” Plan 9 From Outer Space more than the Godfather, but that doesn’t mean from a serious critical perspective on filmmaking that the former is a “better movie”, sorry. > [@](#): > > I’ve never seen either show, but I’m not such an arrogant ass as to think I have any right to tell others what forms of entertainment they should or should not enjoy. They should enjoy ones which are good, and minimize the consumption of those which aren’t. > [@](#): > > And unless you have seen both shows, any comparison or contrast you try to make might as well be talking out of your ass. …unless I’ve watched the complete seasons Barney and Friends I can’t say it really isn’t some deep philosophical treatise worthy of being studied in post-graduate philosophy schools alongside Plato’s symposium… sure… ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/78 "2016-12-23T15:34:30Z")
Smug morons are the worst kind. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/79 "2016-12-23T15:34:38Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Because it’s late and I have no idea how an entirely made up word is properly singularized? Point of order, all words are entirely made up. ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421/80 "2016-12-23T15:36:32Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Nor does some neckbeard on 4chan claiming that MLP is as deep as Citizen Kane. > > And no, if everything is completely opinion, there would be no need for critics like Roger Ebert. Sorry to break it to you, but there never has been a _need_ for critics, as in, every one could stop critiquing tomorrow, and society will continue to function just fine. Someone’s free to “like” Plan 9 From Outer Space more than the Godfather, but that doesn’t mean from a serious critical perspective on filmmaking that the former is a “better movie”, sorry. [/quote] It does to that person. Have you never heard the quote, “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”? Whether a movie is good or not matters only to the person watching it at the time. > [@](#): > > They should enjoy ones which are good, and minimize the consumption of those which aren’t. Who the fuck appointed you to be the judge of what is and is not “good”? That’s an individual determination. If the person enjoys it, it is good to them, and that’s all that matters. > [@](#): > > …unless I’ve watched the complete seasons Barney and Friends I can’t say it really isn’t some deep philosophical treatise worthy of being studied in post-graduate philosophy schools alongside Plato’s symposium… sure… What do post-grad philosophy schools have to do with any of it? We’re talking about entertainment. As for Barney and Friends vs Plato’s Symposium, which do you think is most likely to calm a crying infant? I guarantee you’d see the genius of it when the obnoxious bawling finally comes to an end as the child becomes mesmerized by the creepy purple dinosaur. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-the-standards-of-manhood-today-gone-to-the-dogs/775421.md?page=5)