# Have their been any American Conspiracy Theories That Were True? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 10, 2007, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374 "2007-01-10T03:56:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/41 "2007-01-12T16:48:59Z")
Though to be honest, if we’re going to bring examples of how the press minimized a number of things that would be considered front-page news today (the misadventures of drunken sports stars, politicos found in bed with women other than their wives, etc), this thread could go on all day. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/42 "2007-01-12T16:56:00Z")
Isn’t that an extremely unlikely way to kill someone to keep them from blabbing? The fact that Jack Ruby _wasn’t_ assassinated in prison suggests he either a) didn’t have anything to hide, or b) wasn’t in danger of spilling it, in which case, why cancerize him? In any case, he wasn’t killed by lung cancer; it was a pulmonary embolism. I think there needs to be a better definition of what makes a “conspiracy theory” different from “ugly rumors” if we’re going to answer how either one turns into “the truth.” ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/43 "2007-01-12T17:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] Isn’t that an extremely unlikely way to kill someone to keep them from blabbing? The fact that Jack Ruby _wasn’t_ assassinated in prison suggests he either a) didn’t have anything to hide, or b) wasn’t in danger of spilling it, in which case, why cancerize him? In any case, he wasn’t killed by lung cancer; it was a pulmonary embolism. [/QUOTE] The situation I was thinking of would be if the CIA wants to get rid of a troublesome individual who is not an immediate threat. Like, say, the current president of Venezuela who has severe Communist leanings. There would be a huge backlash against the United States if he was shot (even if we didn’t do it), but if he got brain cancer and died a few months later, well that’s just the way things go, right? _wink_ > [@JohnT](#): > > IIRC, there was a “conspiracy” to display FDR as vigorous and healthy and to minimize pictures of him in his wheelchair. Cagney’s Yankee Doodle Dandy featured a song and dance skit with a tap-dancing FDR\* - something that I don’t think would play very well today. 😉 > > \*The Rogers and Hart’s Off the Record scene. I’ve read that if anyone took a picture of FDR in his wheelchair, the Secret Service would confiscate the film from that camera and destroy it. Their actions went well beyond simply not talking about FDR’s infirmities. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/44 "2007-01-12T20:02:28Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] I’ve read that if anyone took a picture of FDR in his wheelchair, the Secret Service would confiscate the film from that camera and destroy it. Their actions went well beyond simply not talking about FDR’s infirmities. [/QUOTE] That may be true but it still wasn’t a government conspiracy. Any newspaper could have run a front page story about his condition. They didn’t. Hell it wasn’t really a secret even to the public. For public appearences a ramp had to be built wherever he went so that his car could be driven up to the podium. It was an open secret that no one mentioned. Not a conspiracy. Sort of like Gov Macgreevy being gay. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/45 "2007-01-12T20:16:03Z")
There actually was an abortive [plot to overthrow FDR](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/27/112936/440) in 1933. A group of businessmen and pols including a du Pont family member and Al Smith wanted to install General Smedley Butler, USMC ret., as president. Butler ratted them out in hearings before Congress. Curiously, not much fuss was made about it and no one served any time. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/46 "2007-01-13T01:31:23Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] Take Casey: the Iran-Contra thing wasn’t exposed until November 1986, and Casey is said to have died in May 1987 of a brain tumor. They would have had to have decided to cancerize him the very moment the story hit the presses, wouldn’t they? Seems unlikely to me. [/QUOTE] To tighten up the sequence of events further using Woodward’s account of Casey’s illness in _Veil_, he was diagnosed with prostrate cancer in about November 1986, pretty much in the midst of the story breaking, then collapsed with a seizure at Langley on December 15th. A lymphoma was removed from his brain later that week, with the operation being described in a statement to the press at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/47 "2007-01-13T01:47:51Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] There actually was an abortive [plot to overthrow FDR](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/27/112936/440) in 1933. A group of businessmen and pols including a du Pont family member and Al Smith wanted to install General Smedley Butler, USMC ret., as president. Butler ratted them out in hearings before Congress. Curiously, not much fuss was made about it and no one served any time. [/QUOTE] The Master [speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/051118.html). ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/48 "2007-01-13T02:37:00Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] The situation I was thinking of would be if the CIA wants to get rid of a troublesome individual who is not an immediate threat. Like, say, the current president of Venezuela who has severe Communist leanings. [/QUOTE] I don’t deny that cancer would certainly be an innocuous way to do so, supposing that it could be done, if a bit unpredictable in the specifics of _when_ that person would die. Arranging what looked like a fatal case of food poisoning would seem to be much simpler, quicker, and more predictable — just add some toxic mushrooms or a large dose of E. coli to the guy’s jambalaya, or send him some blankets infected with smallpox, and bingo. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/49 "2007-01-13T02:57:52Z")
If a conspiracy is proven to be true, it is because the Jews and Homo’s allow it. If a conspiracy is proven to be untrue, it is because the Jews and Homo’s are busy controlling the world and pushing their agenda. There. I think I sprained my two brain cells working on this level of narrowminded paranoia. I hope I got it right. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/50 "2007-01-13T03:01:09Z")
I wonder if Operation Mogul counts, or if it technically is disqualified. For a while the official line was that it was just a weather balloon, but in reality, it (reputedly) was part of a spy operation. Maybe. Summary here: [Project Mogul - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul) ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/51 "2007-01-13T11:18:18Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] I don’t deny that cancer would certainly be an innocuous way to do so, supposing that it could be done, if a bit unpredictable in the specifics of _when_ that person would die. Arranging what looked like a fatal case of food poisoning would seem to be much simpler, quicker, and more predictable — just add some toxic mushrooms or a large dose of E. coli to the guy’s jambalaya, or send him some blankets infected with smallpox, and bingo. [/QUOTE] This is pretty much the debate around the recent death of [Alexander Litvinenko](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko_poisoning) in the UK… instead of cancer cells it was radioactive powder sprinkled on his sushi. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/52 "2007-01-13T20:00:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] It’s not proven, but I’ve heard rumors (mostly from non-American sources) that the CIA has the ability to give someone a serious case of cancer. I presume this involves injecting the person with cancerous cells, but like all good conspiracy theories this one is short on verifiable details. If see how this would be an attractive assassination method for certain situations – no bullet-ridden bodies or messy explosions – just slip some cancerous cells into the guy’s next flu vaccine, and in a few months he’s no longer a problem. [/QUOTE] I’m dubious about the "injecting cancerous cells "thing but you could repeatedly expose the target to radiation without their knowledge which might work but as another poster pointed out it would take a hell of a long time to put them out of the picture ,and when they discovered that they’d got terminal cancer they might choose to tell the world what they knew about the conspiracy as a "death bed confession "sort of thing to expiate their sins . ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/53 "2007-01-13T20:14:08Z")
[QUOTE=Emerald Hawk] I’ve often wondered if anyone guessed we were using spy satellites to spy on the Soviets in the 1960’s. In retrospect, it seems like a pretty obvious conclusion to draw. The fact that we were launching satellites was public knowledge, and everyone also knew about the U-2 flights over the USSR after Mr. Powers’ crash in 1960. At some point when I can afford Nexus/Lexus access I’ll have to research this question more. [/QUOTE] After the Gary Powers incident and the presidents public announcement that U.S. over flights of the Soviet Union would cease ,the R.A.F at the request of the P.OT.U.S.(via our P.M.) took on the over flights missions . An incredible number of R.A.F. crew were killed ,admittedly over a long period of years ,their families being told that the deaths were due to training accidents . I cant give a cite on this ,saw a documentary about the subject several years ago ,but I suspect that under the "thirty years rule " that British secrets come under ;it is probably information that is quite easily available now .(if of course the documentary was accurate ) ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/54 "2007-01-13T20:16:59Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Screw Kennedy: What I want to know: WHO murdered President Zachary Taylor! 😕 [/QUOTE] I’d be a little bit careful if Iwere you ,you’re getting just a leeeeeeetle bit too inquisitive . ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/55 "2007-01-13T20:18:07Z")
[QUOTE=e-logic] This is pretty much the debate around the recent death of [Alexander Litvinenko](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko_poisoning) in the UK… [/QUOTE] That was a dude who had already blabbed, yes? There wasn’t much more damage he could’ve done. That’s not the same as the alleged cancerization of Jack Ruby, William Casey, or some hypothetical tinpot dictator, who could have been killed in much more efficient ways had they been considered a threat to let the cat out of the bag. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/56 "2007-01-14T20:40:58Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] That was a dude who had already blabbed, yes? There wasn’t much more damage he could’ve done. [/QUOTE] But at least it will frighten other people into not talking lest they end up the same way, right? ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/57 "2007-01-14T21:04:32Z")
Whether or not there is any gold left at Fort Knox is a perennial favorite, esp. w/ cranks and similar curmudgeons - here’s a snip of a usenet post, which the author claims there has been no true audit since 1954; here he is referring to a later audit from 1974, which was apparently fraudulent: “But now, thanks to the secret modifications, there is no longer a vault-within-a-vault arrangement. Instead, there are now two separate and independent vaults. One is a vault with all the jail-cell-like compartments in it, which was shown to the visitors last September. The other vault, which cannot be reached from within the vault the visitors saw, is the gold vault, the Central Core Vault, which can be reached only by the elevator in the rear of the building. The compartments in the vault shown to the visitors were never intended for storage of gold; and, my friends, what the visitors saw last September were not gold bars–not even junk gold! It has now been confirmed to my satisfaction that what was seen by the visitors is a commodity known as “show gold”–lead bars covered with a layer of gold that is just thick enough to stand up under handling. This even helps explain the high alloy content responsible for the strange redness which many of the visitors last September noticed. Pure gold is extremely soft, and a thin layer over lead could all too easily be damaged and reveal the lead underneath. Highly alloyed gold–that is, impure gold–was therefore used that it would withstand handling. Thus they saw “junk gold” all right, but it wasn’t even junk gold all the way through! The visitors of Fort Knox last September of course had no way of knowing that there are two vaults, and no one told them. They were led to believe that the vault they entered with all the compartments was The Vault, and the Treasury had seen to it that none of the invited visitors were experts on gold, much less on the mysterious legendary place known as “Fort Knox.” The closest brush that the visitors had with stumbling onto the truth came when a reporter asked Mrs. Mary Brooks, the Director of the Mint, why the compartments were numbered in such a curious fashion–1 to 14 on one floor, and 21 to 34 on the other. Mrs.Brooks helpfully replied that she didn’t know. Well, Mary, if you haven’t figured it out by now, I’ll tell you. The missing numbers–15 to 20 and 35 to 40–are those of the cells that were deleted in the secret modifications during the 1942-43 time period.” Another conspiracy link: [James Turk Blog | Free Gold Money Report](http://www.fgmr.com/right2know.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Eclipse28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4bbf92/32.png) [@Eclipse28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eclipse28)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/58 "2007-01-14T21:49:59Z")
In America? No Way!! Eclipse28 \ Politicians my lie to our face, but we are far better at lying to ourselves! ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/59 "2007-01-14T22:00:45Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] But at least it will frighten other people into not talking lest they end up the same way, right? [/QUOTE] Yes — **if** the perpetrators had some way of guaranteeing that the assassination method and the guy’s former profession would make international news. But the same could be said about **any** assassinated spy killed by most any means, couldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374/60 "2007-01-15T01:52:21Z")
While not wanting to derail the “assassination by cancer” topic, I did want to say that that was not the original point of my post. It was that **a director of the CIA was given brain surgery** , ( :eek: ) to remove _either_ a tumor or inconvenient knowledge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-their-been-any-american-conspiracy-theories-that-were-true/387374.md?page=4)