# Have there been any incidents between large whales and \[military submarines\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 23, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946 "2017-07-23T14:57:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nansbread1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Nansbread1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nansbread1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/1 "2017-07-23T14:57:11Z")
Military submarines. Has any whale taken on a military submarine ? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/2 "2017-07-23T15:03:12Z")
Not that I know of, but apparently [it was risky to be a whale when U-boats were on the prowl](https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=LAH19190905.2.305). ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/3 "2017-07-23T15:22:50Z")
Poking around on google, I found that the USS Tunny (a submarine that served in WWII and the Vietnam war) collided with a whale in 1959. The sub went to Pearl Harbor for repairs and found the sonar dome to be completely missing and the sonar head underneath was damaged beyond repair. There were no details about the condition of the whale. I also found a reference to an incident in 2001 where a whale breached in front of a sub and came down and struck the sub’s bow. The whale was listed as possibly injured. Damage to the sub was not listed, and the sub was listed only as a Navy vessel and was not named. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Not that I know of, but apparently [it was risky to be a whale when U-boats were on the prowl](https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=LAH19190905.2.305). Not just u-boats. British Navy mistook whales for submarines and torpedoed them, killing three, during Falklands War [http://www.news.com.au/world/british-navy-mistakes-whales-for-submarines-and-torpedoes-them-killing-three-during-falklands-war/news-story/92e895efd40db654fa41a62a3312f4c0](http://www.news.com.au/world/british-navy-mistakes-whales-for-submarines-and-torpedoes-them-killing-three-during-falklands-war/news-story/92e895efd40db654fa41a62a3312f4c0) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/4 "2017-07-23T16:41:47Z")
On a not 100% totally unrelated note, there is a tale in a book I have on the history of Edisto Island, South Carolina where someone is patrolling the beach at night during WWII looking for Nazis that are invading by submarine. Sure enough, he sees someone slowly crawling up the beach from the ocean and shoots him. The coming morning when it gets bright enough to see, the people go out and find the sea turtle that has been shot. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/5 "2017-07-23T20:48:41Z")
It can also depend on what type of sonar they are using. The Navy has been testing a powerful sonar in the Juan de Fuca Strait (near Vancouver Island). It has wreaked havoc among cetaceans. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/6 "2017-07-23T21:54:27Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > It can also depend on what type of sonar they are using. The Navy has been testing a powerful sonar in the Juan de Fuca Strait (near Vancouver Island). It has wreaked havoc among cetaceans. Submarines rarely use active sonar. It’s like shining a flashlight in the dark; it helps you see, but it helps others see you for a much longer distance. > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Not just u-boats. > British Navy mistook whales for submarines and torpedoed them, killing three, during Falklands War > [http://www.news.com.au/world/british-navy-mistakes-whales-for-submarines-and-torpedoes-them-killing-three-during-falklands-war/news-story/92e895efd40db654fa41a62a3312f4c0](http://www.news.com.au/world/british-navy-mistakes-whales-for-submarines-and-torpedoes-them-killing-three-during-falklands-war/news-story/92e895efd40db654fa41a62a3312f4c0) “Now I am become Death, destroyer of Whales.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/7 "2017-07-23T22:20:57Z")
Title edited to better indicate subject. Please don’t post partial titles. It makes you look like a spammer.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/8 "2018-09-06T00:32:43Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Not that I know of, but apparently [it was risky to be a whale when U-boats were on the prowl](https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=LAH19190905.2.305). Poor Wilbur! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/9 "2018-09-06T15:42:48Z")
I have, as a 2nd class sonarman, made five (5) submarine patrols in the Med and every patrol we were surrounded by what we classify as biologic’s. They were whales, dolphins, schools of fish … you name it. We were mostly interested in enemy combat ships so we didn’t pay much attention to them, but more than once I would end a six (6) hour watch and come back twelve (12) hours later and the same bio’s were surrounding us. They must have thought we were their mother ship or something. As a boomer (FBM) submarine we traveled slow and around 200’ and avoided shipping lanes … I also served on diesel boats and while in the Gulf of Alaska we would experience the same biological sounds and one time a school of killer whales showed up and all of the biological sounds disappered in a hurry. I have of course heard sea stories from other submarine sailors about whales, but never trust a sea story that starts with “this ain’t no shit” :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/10 "2018-09-06T15:46:40Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > Submarines rarely use active sonar. It’s like shining a flashlight in the dark; it helps you see, but it helps others see you for a much longer distance. Give me a ping Vasily. One ping only, please. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-been-any-incidents-between-large-whales-and-military-submarines/791946/11 "2018-09-06T16:34:11Z")
Zombie thread, but I thought the active sonar use that had environmentalists in a tizzy wasn’t primarily from submarines (which as you note, are thought to not use their active sonar very often), but from surface vessels? Such as the USN’s SURTASS ships (like the USS Impeccable [USNS Impeccable - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Impeccable_(T-AGOS-23)) ) which have very powerful low frequency sonars, though AIUI, the low frequency emitter is on the ship, while the towed array listens for echoes from the emitter’s pulses. Power output for some of these can be ridiculous. For the AN/SQS-26 hull mounted sonar set that was the predecessor to the current AN/SQS-53 used on ships like the _Burkes_, wiki lists the maximum output at 240 kW. I don’t know what output power the SQS-53 and its subtypes use, nor the low frequency emitters used by the UQQ-2 array on the SURTASS ships. Advocacy paper from roughly 20 years ago about the purported effect on ocean mammals from the ~215-240 db sound intensity from the USN’s proposed low frequency active sonar system. [OMI: The US Navy's Low Frequency Active Sonar: Cause for Concern](http://www.oceanmammalinst.com/mgpaper.html) From it: > [@](#): > > On August 25, 1994 a scuba diver was accidentally exposed to testing of the US Navy’s LFA sonar system. (Comments submitted at Public Hearing of California Coastal Commission, 12/12/97). The ship transmitting the sonar was over 100 miles northwest of the diver who reported distinct and disorienting lung vibration as a result. Pestorius and Curley (1996) exposed Navy divers to low frequency active sonar and reported that one of the divers had to be hospitalized and was later under treatment for seizures. A Hawaiian resident who was in the water when the Navy was conducting their low frequency active sonar test in Hawaii in March, 1998 was disoriented and nauseous afterward and had to see a physician who diagnosed her with symptoms comparable to acute trauma. (Declaration filed in court, March 25, 1998.) The Navy admitted that this swimmer was exposed to the sonar at 120 dB while she was in the water, far below the operational sonar at 240 dB. I do know that oceanic seismic surveying is widely done throughout the world, mainly to look for oil and gas. What are the effects on marine mammals from the repeated airgun sound pulses that are used in such surveying? And what is the intensity of those pulses compared to the sonar intensity that was so controversial twenty years ago? (Aside, if you’re ever in Houston, the Museum of Natural Science has, floating in a tube of water, a model of an airgun sonic emitter in their section devoted to the wonder of oil and gas exploration and production. It’s quite loud, and will startle you if you’re not expecting it.) Not a submarine, but while poking around trying to find something for this question, I came across this account of a USN Knox-class frigate, _U.S.S. Stein_ whose front sonar dome bore scars from an attack by a giant squid. [USS Stein - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stein_(FF-1065)) > [@](#): > > She is noteworthy as a U.S. Navy vessel that has apparently been attacked by an unknown species of giant squid. In 1978, the “NOFOUL” rubber coating of her AN/SQS-26 sonar dome was damaged by multiple cuts over 8 percent of the dome surface. Nearly all of the cuts contained remnants of sharp, curved claws found on the rims of suction cups of some squid tentacles. The claws were much larger than those of any squid that had been discovered at that time. Which the wiki attributes to the U.S. Naval Institute’s _Proceedings_ August 1978 issue, “Sea Creatures and the Problem of Equipment Damage,” pp.106-107, by C. Scott Johnson. I wonder where Tom Clancy got the inspiration for the bit in _Red October_ where he mentions that Captain Ramius rammed a whale with one of his first commands, brought the boat back, and a hunk of whale rib was then later displayed in the O. Club in Severomorsk?