# Have there ever been any selective breeding (for humans) cults? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 7, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454 "2011-09-07T01:31:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454/21 "2011-09-08T13:03:06Z")
I know, I’m picking on a silly, cardboard-for-special-effects, TV show, but > [@DocCathode](#): > > Andromeda- The Niezcheans are a centuries old cult. Originally, they were slightly changed through genetic engineering (they have bone spikes on their forearms for example). Over time, their belief in being stronger, faster and smarter has led to people who are superior to normal humans. Because normal humans find weakness, slowness and stupidity attractive and therefore choose to mate with and reward weak, slow, idiots? :rolleyes: Frankly, I’d expect the normal humans to be better off, since physical strength and speed aren’t very useful if you’ve got the technology to build friggin’ spaceships. Selecting for big muscles will probably leave the Niezcheans worse off, as normal humans will be rewarding overall health, smarts, ability to work with others, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454/22 "2011-09-08T13:24:29Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > as does the US Well, yeah, but not _that_ seriously. Which reminds me, there’s reference to eugenics and selective breeding both in _Star Trek_ (Khan and the Eugenics War etc.) and Niven and Pournelle’s _The Mote in God’s Eye_ (the “Sauron supermen”). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454/23 "2011-09-08T14:35:19Z")
There were the [Oneidans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_Community) (yes, the same ones who made the tableware). There’s a separate article for [Oneida “stirpiculture”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneida_stirpiculture), which was the word coined by the founder for his selective breeding program. As is usual with such cults, the leader was mighty proud of his own genetics and sought to spread them far and wide. ---
**Author:** ![spikebrennan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@spikebrennan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spikebrennan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454/24 "2011-09-08T15:59:28Z")
Jimmy the Greek, a sports commentator, publicly claimed that American slaveowners bred their African slaves for strength, which (Jimmy claimed) accounted for the disproportionate representation of African-Americans in the elite levels of American sports. Jimmy was subsequently fired for making this statement, and I know of no reputable academic who supports Jimmy’s thesis. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454/25 "2011-09-08T16:10:12Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The Chinese government doesn’t qualify as a cult, [Well. . .](http://library.thinkquest.org/26469/cultural-revolution/cult.html) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454/26 "2011-09-08T16:18:30Z")
I don’t think you’ll find anything but a plan, as, by definition, a cult needs a strong leader, and, usually, once that leader dies, the cult breaks up. In other words, the cult doesn’t last multiple generations. At least, this is how my sociology book defined cults. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454/27 "2011-09-08T16:33:19Z")
The Raëlian cult (no, they are not Classic Genesis fans) literally is a cult and literally is, or claims to be, [working](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%ABlism#Human_Cloning) on the genetic engineering of humans. > [@](#): > > Raëlians seek to both genetically clone individuals, rapidly accelerate growth of the clone to adulthood through a process like guided self-assembly of rapidly expanded cells or even nanotechnology and then transfer the mind and personality of the donor into the clone. Raëlians believe humanity can attain eternal life through the science of cloning. > > In the final stages of development, hitherto unknown information contained within undamaged DNA would be enough to bring others back from the dead including their memories and personality. This would be done by taking a small sample from someone’s body and preserving it at the time when the level of the brain’s efficiency and knowledge is highest. On the day of death, a cell would be taken from the sample for the cloning to take place, and the memories and personality would be restored to their peak level. > > Claude Vorilhon told lawmakers that banning the development of human cloning was comparable to outlawing medical advances such “antibiotics, blood transfusions, and vaccines.” ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454/28 "2011-09-08T18:26:32Z")
The stories of Niven and Pournelle from “The Mote In GOd’s Eye” also form the basis for the “War World” series of books which have much more detail on the Sauron SUpermen. It seems to be more likely a genetic modification program. (Including hints of animal DNA mixed in). Of course, all that genetic material was turned into people using the old-fashioned gestational apparatus. The excellent short story from that mix, “Brenda” by Larry Niven, has a quick dissertation about breeding and superhuman traits - IIRC “doubling the gene for night-vision gave daytime blindness, doubled fast-clot genes so warriors did not bleed to death meant heart attacks and strokes by age 45…” The problem is finding cooperative participants in breeding programs; most of humanity has found it difficult to tell others when and with whom to breed and not breed, no matter what the incentives. And if they do have such control, as I mentioned before, I would think they often take the tempttion to add some genetic material of their own, even if it does not meet the program goals. > [@](#): > > Because normal humans find weakness, slowness and stupidity attractive and therefore choose to mate with and reward weak, slow, idiots? Sort of - it seems the average human’s selection criteria rarely include any understandable degree of selectivity, especially when beer is involved (seeing as what DOES reproduce). Was it Helen Gurley Brown who said “men will schtup mud?” ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454/29 "2011-09-08T19:14:53Z")
My wife claims (and she is not _entirely_ joking) that Jews have been bred for argumentativeness for millennia. Couldn’t prove it by me. One world-famous mathematician, now deceased, told me that his grandfather, the wealthiest man in their small Polish town (a brewer), went to the local Cheder (religious school) and asked who their brightest student was and that’s who he arranged for his daughter to marry. On different occasions he described his father as a Talmudic scholar and a brewer. It’s not a systematic breeding program but obviously something of the sort was happening informally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-selective-breeding-for-humans-cults/595454.md?page=1)