# Have there ever been any true matriarchal societies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562 "2021-09-12T18:45:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/21 "2021-09-13T06:21:30Z")
I would say the Bolobedu people of South Africa, who for a couple centuries have had a [hereditary queendom.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_Queen). ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/22 "2021-09-13T06:48:56Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > So far, for the most part, we’ve gotten examples where women have held important decision making positions but not one where they outright ruled. Doesn’t the Brazilian women-only town count? 600 women and only some male kids, and once the men hit age eighteen they must leave. Women in control of essentially all the decisions. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/23 "2021-09-13T16:38:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am talking about societies where women actually ruled 1. Queen (Rani) Laxmibai ruled Jhansi from August 1857 to January 1858. She was the face of First Indian War of Independence against the British East India Company. She led her army against the British, on a horse, with a sword with her son (baby) strapped to her back. She lost - and was killed. > **[Rani of Jhansi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_of_Jhansi)** > > Lakshmibai Newalkar, the Rani of Jhansi (pronunciationⓘ; born Manikarnika Tambe; 19 November 1828 — 18 June 1858), was the Maharani consort of the princely state of Jhansi in Maratha Empire from 1843 to 1853 by marriage to Maharaja Gangadhar Rao Newalkar. She was one of the leading figures in the Indian Rebellion of 1857, who became a national hero and symbol of resistance to the British rule in India for Indian nationalists. > Born into a Karhada Brahmin family in Banares, Lakshmibai married t... 1. Rani Durgavati 1500s fought the Mughals [Rani Durgavati - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_Durgavati) 2. Razia Sultan - Probably the only Woman Ruler, Islam has ever seen [Razia Sultana - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razia_Sultana) The political environment in the immediate vicinity of these rulers was women dominated, but whether the entire society was matriarchal is probably not true. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/24 "2021-09-13T16:51:59Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Well he keeps rejecting examples of where women hold significant power. The requirement seems to be for absolute power with no male power at all. My point is that this is a very patriarchal view of power. It requires a mirror image of absolute male power. The answer is always going to be more nuanced otherwise the question sets itself up for failure. He’s rejecting them because holding significant power doesn’t make a society matriarchal. > [@Velocity](#): > > Doesn’t the Brazilian women-only town count? 600 women and only some male kids, and once the men hit age eighteen they must leave. Women in control of essentially all the decisions. That’s an interesting question. Back in the 1970s, there were some lesbian utopian communities that got started in the Ozarks of Arkansas and Missouri some of which are still around. I don’t know if I’d count those as a matriarchal society given the limited scope of their power. And as far as Brazil goes, the story about that town might be a [hoax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belo_Vale). ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/25 "2021-09-13T17:13:41Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > He’s rejecting them because holding significant power doesn’t make a society matriarchal. What makes a society patriarchal then? A society where women hold no power whatsoever under any circumstances? Extreme definitions lead us to null answers. The nature of the wielded power demanded is following patriarchal concepts of lines of power. So again, the question becomes self defeating. A society might exist that is functioning perfectly well, but if there isn’t a traditional patriarchal power structure occupied by women instead of men, it seems it cant be a matriarchy. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/26 "2021-09-13T17:43:15Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > > [@Odesio](#): > > > > He’s rejecting them because holding significant power doesn’t make a society matriarchal. > > What makes a society patriarchal then? A society where women hold no power whatsoever under any circumstances? Extreme definitions lead us to null answers. The nature of the wielded power demanded is following patriarchal concepts of lines of power. So again, the question becomes self defeating. A society might exist that is functioning perfectly well, but if there isn’t a traditional patriarchal power structure occupied by women instead of men, it seems it cant be a matriarchy. @Czarcasm seems to be at least partially accepting the Haudenosaunee, who do indeed have a different type of power structure: > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Among the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois), men are the chiefs. But women select the chiefs, and can remove them. So who’s in charge? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Politically, that would put the women more in charge, if even only indirectly. Closer than the other examples so far. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/27 "2021-09-13T23:50:05Z")
So, what percentage of ‘men in charge’ would be enough to disqualify a society? One percent? One single man? ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/28 "2021-09-14T13:33:02Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Doesn’t the Brazilian women-only town count? 600 women and only some male kids, and once the men hit age eighteen they must leave. Women in control of essentially all the decisions. Problem with the Brazilian women-only town is that it doesn’t actually exist. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/29 "2021-09-14T14:51:22Z")
Outside of a John Saxon TV movie, I don’t think the OP is going to be satisfied with any example submitted. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/30 "2021-09-14T15:17:34Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > what percentage of ‘men in charge’ would be enough to disqualify a society? One percent? One single man? Perhaps we can compare it to the standards for a patriarchal society? Certainly it would take more than just one woman or just one percent of women in political power to change a society from patriarchal to matriarchal. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/31 "2021-09-14T21:53:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps we can compare it to the standards for a patriarchal society? Aye. There’s the rub. What does it mean for a society to be patriarchal? The word itself means “power (rule) from the father”. And was originally used to describe only that; where the power was literally passed down from father to son (and sometimes to daughter). But, it had come to mean any political system where men predominantly (or solely) wield power. When you tack on the word “society”, we seem to be talking about more than just political power. When the US is described as a patriarchal society, it is generally agreed that the fact that men also dominate the economic and domestic realms is included in the discussion. You’ve stated that you wish to confine the topic to the political arena. Fine. What constitutes patriarchy in your mind? How is matriarchy related to/ different from patriarchy. Is it the exact opposite? What does it mean to be the opposite? Is a matriarchy anything that isn’t a patriarchy? Is there some middle ground between the two? What would that(them) be called? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/32 "2021-09-14T22:10:02Z")
Every time you get stung by a wasp, you can thank a matriarchal society. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/33 "2021-09-15T00:00:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Each of the six nations of Haudenosaunee is comprised of extended family groups called CLANS. A CLAN MOTHER heads each clan. In the past, a clan mother was usually the oldest woman of the clan. Today, clan mothers are chosen for their cultural wisdom and dedication to the Haudenosaunee people. […] > > > > > Clans are extended families. Haudenosaunee clans are MATRILINEAL. This means they follow the line of descent of the mother. Children belong to their mother’s clan. […] > > > > > > The clan mother has an important role. Some of her responsibilities are to: > > > ■ Make all the major decisions that affect the clan. > > > ■ Assign names to people in her clan. > > > ■ Nominate the male leader of the clan. The male leader is called the HOYANEH. > > > ■ Help ensure that all members of her clan are fed. > > AIUI, there would still be lots of aspects of society that men were in charge of, such as hunting and warfare. But effective power in terms of practical influence and authority does seem to have belonged primarily to women. That is a pretty good example, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/34 "2021-09-15T00:01:46Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Is a matriarchy anything that isn’t a patriarchy? Is there some middle ground between the two? What would that(them) be called? I am not writing a dissertation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/35 "2021-09-15T00:05:02Z")
Patriarchy: A system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it. Matriarchy: A system of society or government in which women hold the power and women are largely excluded from it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/36 "2021-09-15T00:19:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A system of society or government in which women hold the power and women are largely excluded from it. That’s a neat trick. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562/37 "2021-09-15T00:25:04Z")
Bit of a brain fart-that second “women” should be “men”, of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-there-ever-been-any-true-matriarchal-societies/950562.md?page=1)