# Have they no sense of decency? (Criticising Bush for Katarina)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 31, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423 "2005-08-31T14:25:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@yo\_no\_se](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yo_no_se)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/1 "2005-08-31T14:25:40Z")
[http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE\_ID=46059](http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46059)
The obstructionists are already politicizing Katrina against our President.
Will the screeching ever stop? Isn’t it absolutely shameful? I am sickened by this crap.
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### Author:  [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/2 "2005-08-31T14:30:41Z")
link doesn’t work
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### Author:  [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/3 "2005-08-31T14:31:38Z")
[http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE\_ID=46059](http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46059)
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/4 "2005-08-31T14:42:20Z")
What if it’s accurate to say that these annual hurricanes are caused by global warming? Will it continue to be “screeching” as year after year a city is leveled by a hurricane?
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### Author:  [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/5 "2005-08-31T14:42:27Z")
I don’t see the problem. After all, if global warming is real, and has accelerated hurricanes, then anyone who causes it to exist should be blamed, be it refrigerator manufacturers, or presidents.
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### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/6 "2005-08-31T14:45:56Z")
Seeing as it’s appearing on World Net Daily, probably none of it is true. But if it is, I certainly don’t see anything “absolutely shameful” about telling the truth and backing it up with good, solid science. We have probably around 500 people dead and several cities almost entirely destroyed. Without global warming, the damage and death would probably have been far less. While there are people in denial about these facts, of course, denial will not keep our cities above water. If our leaders want to save lives in the future, telling the truth now certainly looks like a good start to me.
Also, it should be remarked that World Net Daily responded to the terrorist attacks by celebrating the death of the victims and praising Al Queda for their Godly stand as “a sword against America”. Given that, it seems a _little_ bit hypocritical for them to whine about someone else politicizing a disaster. Wouldn’t you agree, **yo no se**?
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/7 "2005-08-31T14:46:00Z")
Of course the premise is that the president is above criticism. When the effects of his decision making are felt, it’s considered poor form to hold him responsible.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/8 "2005-08-31T14:47:44Z")
**yo no se** , are we “debating” whether critics of the current administration are correct to condemn the president’s actions regarding global warming?, are rude to publish their criticism so soon after the storm has passed through? are too shrill in their condenation (regardless whether it is correct or rude)?
Please post a specific point of debate, here. Otherwise I am going to move this to the **Pit**.
[/Moderator Mode]
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/9 "2005-08-31T14:50:21Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Also, it should be remarked that World Net Daily responded to the terrorist attacks by celebrating the death of the victims and praising Al Queda for their Godly stand as “a sword against America”.
You have a citation for that (as opposed to WND having quoted Falwell and Robinson on September 13)?
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### Author:  [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/10 "2005-08-31T14:52:32Z")
I’m getting used to it. Every time there is an anomaly in the weather, somewhere in the world, someone invariably will pop up and blame it on global warming. Global warming appears to be the latest pseudo-religion to afflict the environmental movement.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/11 "2005-08-31T14:54:05Z")
> [@ITR champion](#):
>
> Also, it should be remarked that World Net Daily responded to the terrorist attacks by celebrating the death of the victims and praising Al Queda for their Godly stand as “a sword against America”. Given that, it seems a little bit hypocritical for them to whine about someone else politicizing a disaster. Wouldn’t you agree, yo no se?
Is that true? :eek:
I know some of the white supremacist groups were saying things like that, but that seems a bit much for WND. (which is an odd thing to type.)
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### Author:  [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/12 "2005-08-31T15:13:17Z")
As much as I despise Bush, I wouldn’t lay this at his door, either. It’s simply not fair. He’s just one of millions with the same viewpoint.
Even if he _wanted_ to, there’s really nothing he could do. His administration is on the way out of power. It’s not as if he could say, “Okay, that’s the last straw. We’re fixing global warming tomorrow.” At this point, it would take decades, if not a century, to correct the problem, and there’s no guarantee the next president will be scientifically literate.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/13 "2005-08-31T15:28:31Z")
Why does the OP use the word “obstructionists”? I could understand using that term to characterize activists/commentators out to “obstruct” some particular Admin program or goal, such as the war. But if Bush is in any sense to blame for global warming, he is to blame because of **inaction** (his failure or willful refusal to act vigorously enough to reduce consumption of fossil fuels and find replacement, non-CO2-emitting power sources, especially for automobiles); so, in this particular field of issues, it is meaningless to call his critics “obstructionists.” Rather, it is the critics who with better justice would view Bush as “obstructionist.”
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### Author:  [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/14 "2005-08-31T15:49:08Z")
This is to address the debate about politicizing tragedy, and not intended as a debate of global warming.
In the link, Kennedy states:
_“Well, the science is clear. This month, a study published in the journal Nature by a renowned MIT climatologist linked the increasing prevalence of destructive hurricanes to human-induced global warming.”_
I wasn’t able to find an article from this month; does anyone subscribe to _Nature_? I did find an article referencing hurricanes and global warming (I don’t subscribe, so I can’t post a link or quote) from June 23, 2005. If Kennedy said this about this article, from his comment “this month” he must have said it in June, and that can hardly be considered politicizing this tragedy. Predicting, perhaps…
Kennedy has been absolutely consistent in his criticism of the erosion of environmental regulations during the Bush administration. See and listen to [this](http://www.npr.org/programs/npc/2003/031121rkennedy.html) for further elaboration. So, this is hardly hopping on a bandwagon.
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### Author:  [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/15 "2005-08-31T16:02:58Z")
> [@Plynck](#):
>
> This is to address the debate about politicizing tragedy, and not intended as a debate of global warming.
>
> In the link, Kennedy states:
>
> _“Well, the science is clear. This month, a study published in the journal Nature by a renowned MIT climatologist linked the increasing prevalence of destructive hurricanes to human-induced global warming.”_
> I wasn’t able to find an article from this month; does anyone subscribe to _Nature_? I did find an article referencing hurricanes and global warming (I don’t subscribe, so I can’t post a link or quote) from June 23, 2005. If Kennedy said this about this article, from his comment “this month” he must have said it in June, and that can hardly be considered politicizing this tragedy. Predicting, perhaps…
>
> Kennedy has been absolutely consistent in his criticism of the erosion of environmental regulations during the Bush administration. See and listen to [this](http://www.npr.org/programs/npc/2003/031121rkennedy.html) for further elaboration. So, this is hardly hopping on a bandwagon.
RFK, Jr.s commentsdate 8/29/05
> **["For They That Sow the Wind Shall Reap the Whirlwind"](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/for-they-that-sow-the-win_b_6396)**
>
> As Hurricane Katrina dismantles Mississippi's Gulf Coast, it's worth recalling the central role that Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour played in derailing the Kyoto Protocol and kiboshing President Bush's iron-clad campaign promise to regulate CO2.
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### Author:  [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/16 "2005-08-31T16:09:38Z")
Well, the Bush administration _can_ be blamed for the flooding in New Orleans. Upgrades and repairs to the levees which failed were deferred to pay for the war in Iraq.
[Cite](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313)
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/17 "2005-08-31T16:13:35Z")
So it is Bush’s fault. I knew it. Now he gets to airdrop in and do photo ops and pretend he cares.
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### Author:  [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/18 "2005-08-31T16:14:21Z")
Well now that you have played the Great American Blame Game, the people who are making a difference will be distributing food and water, helping get people medicines they need and finding places for them to sleep in safety.
I hope you feel better that you can lay the blame for the suffering at the feet of Bush.
The politicization of this tragedy is vile and disgusting, not to mention petty and lacking in compassion.
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### Author:  [@yo\_no\_se](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yo_no_se)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/19 "2005-08-31T16:14:37Z")
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> **yo no se** , are we “debating” whether critics of the current administration are correct to condemn the president’s actions regarding global warming?, are rude to publish their criticism so soon after the storm has passed through? are too shrill in their condenation (regardless whether it is correct or rude)?
>
> Please post a specific point of debate, here. Otherwise I am going to move this to the **Pit**.
>
> [/Moderator Mode]
Thanks for the link correction.
My POV: (1) it is extremely indecent for RFK Jr. and his ilk to politicize this event; (2) to do it at this point in time is unforgiveable; and (3) it is morally and ethically wrong to place the blame of a natural disaster of this (or any) magnitude on an individual whether in the Press or in a Courtroom unless there is sufficient evidence to prove guilt.
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/20 "2005-08-31T16:17:09Z")
> [@yo no se](#):
>
> Thanks for the link correction.
>
> My POV: (1) it is extremely indecent for RFK Jr. and his ilk to politicize this event; (2) to do it at this point in time is unforgiveable; and (3) it is morally and ethically wrong to place the blame of a natural disaster of this (or any) magnitude on an individual whether in the Press or in a Courtroom unless there is sufficient evidence to prove guilt.
Is it extremely indecent to connect causes to effects? It is morally and ethically wrong to place the blame of forseeable and preventable consequences of natural disasters on individuals who repeatedly ignored warnings and refused to prepare? And why not “at this point in time,” when people are paying attention?
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