# Have they no sense of decency? (Criticising Bush for Katarina)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 31, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423 "2005-08-31T14:25:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/61 "2005-09-01T03:17:37Z")
Well, Bush and the GOP-controlled appropriations commitee are to blame for the current flooding in NO.
Just not for global warming aspect, which may or may not be causing an increase in tropical storms due to rising waters.
You can see why here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6530435&postcount=11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6530435&postcount=11)
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/62 "2005-09-01T03:43:50Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#):
>
> 1. There’s no evidence at all that global warming contributed to this storm in any way.
The typical ostrich approach, “We need more data, meanwhile let’s just keep doing what we feel like until it’s absolutely proven - and then we’ll find excuses for still doing what we feel like.”
> [@](#):
>
> 1. Had Bush pushed for Kyoto, it would have been overwhelmingly rejected in the senate.
You do not show awareness of the extent to which a President provides leadership to the members of his party in the Senate. If Bush or any other President had wanted it enough, he’d have found ways to twist enough arms or do enough other convincing to get it done.
> [@](#):
>
> 1. Had he managed somehow to get it passed into law, it would have had absolutely no effect on global temperatures by this time.
You really think this is the last hurricane or flood or other environmental disaster that will ever happen? Come on now, you surely see that criticism of Bush’s do-nothing approach is based on what will foreseeably happen as a result of today’s inertia.
> [@](#):
>
> Other than that, it’s all Bush’s fault. :rolleyes:
You must know better than that, even though it’s clearly fun for you to take potshots.
> [@](#):
>
> As for making general points about global warming, the time to do that is not while there are still bodies floating in the flooded streets of a destroyed city.
When _is_ the time to do that, then? It wouldn’t appear that you think there is one at all.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/63 "2005-09-01T04:09:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> The typical ostrich approach, “We need more data, meanwhile let’s just keep doing what we feel like until it’s absolutely proven - and then we’ll find excuses for still doing what we feel like.”
What are you on about? I’m talking about the specific accusation that Bush’s policies contributed to this particular storm in any way. I wasn’t addressing the larger question about how much evidence we need before taking on climate change _at all_. You attacked a total straw man.
> [@](#):
>
> You do not show awareness of the extent to which a President provides leadership to the members of his party in the Senate. If Bush or any other President had wanted it enough, he’d have found ways to twist enough arms or do enough other convincing to get it done.
And you don’t seem to have any awareness about how hard it is for many of these senators to vote for policies that will immediately harm their constituents. Just how much, “this is going to hurt, but it’s for your own good” legislation have you seen make it through Congress?
> [@](#):
>
> You really think this is the last hurricane or flood or other environmental disaster that will ever happen? Come on now, you surely see that criticism of Bush’s do-nothing approach is based on what will foreseeably happen as a result of today’s inertia.
Another variation of your first strawman. Since I wasn’t arguing that Bush could conceivably bear some blame for some unspecified storm in the future, your point is irrelevant. The point is that he isn’t responsible for _this one_ in any way, shape or form.
> [@](#):
>
> When _is_ the time to do that, then? It wouldn’t appear that you think there is one at all.
Because I say it’s not good form to argue this issue while the tragedy is still unfolding, that means that I think there’s never a time to discuss this? Nice leap.
Out of curiousity, if I felt strongly that god will punish the sinful, do you think the best time for me to say that would be, oh, the week after 9/11? And to claim that the WTC attack was God’s wrath on a decadent people like Jerry Falwell did? He sure picked a good time to make his point.
I think it’s perfectly valid to use this disaster to make a point. I just don’t think it’s in good taste to do it _right now_, while the dead still float in the streets and hundreds of thousands of people are at this moment sitting dazed in some random rescue center or sports stadium, having lost their homes, their jobs, their pets, perhaps their friends.
And what makes it worse is that the charge against Bush is completely false in the first place. You don’t need to lie in order to be heard.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/64 "2005-09-01T04:29:18Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I’m talking about the specific accusation that Bush’s policies contributed to this particular storm in any way.
Could you provide the citation for a person in the news who has actually made that accusation?
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/65 "2005-09-01T12:24:19Z")
That’s the strawman, I think. No one has said that this particular storm “is Bush’s fault” even if others are implying that they have.
They have said several other, appropriate, things:
The severity of this storm is something we may need to get used to if we do not address the global warming issue. Along with other severities of climate variability, hotter hots, colder colds, drier droughts, wetter floods, strains on ecosystems and on associated economies. It isn’t a theoretical construct. It is a real and very painful and very costly consequence of ignoring a problem. Prepare now.
The war in Iraq (which some of us felt was not wise to begin, even if we feel we are now obligated to see it out) has caused funds to be diverted from other worthy causes. Those diversions have consequences. A lack of adequate preparedness for this hurricane was one of them.
These statements are not the same as blaming Bush for this hurricane. They are not “obstructionist”. (?)
“Not good form”? I dunno about that. If it was preventing efforts to rescue those stranded or to provide for those displaced or impeded the recovery effort, then sure, bad form. If it uses the moment of the public’s actually giving a shit to help focus on how to minimize the effect of future catastrophic events, then it is excellent form.
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/66 "2005-09-01T12:27:56Z")
I am no fan of Bush.
But there have been Force 5 hurricanes before. One destroyed Galveston, long before Global Warming was a problem.
What justifies the conclusion that they are connected?
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/67 "2005-09-01T13:01:12Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#):
>
> I’m talking about the specific accusation that Bush’s policies contributed to this particular storm in any way. I wasn’t addressing the larger question about how much evidence we need before taking on climate change _at all_. You attacked a total straw man.
No, the straw man in question is the allegation that this specific storm is specifically Bush’s fault. That isn’t the question - the question is Bush’s contribution to worsening the environment to the point where this storm did more damage than it needed to. The straw man is your own creation.
> [@](#):
>
> And you don’t seem to have any awareness about how hard it is for many of these senators to vote for policies that will immediately harm their constituents. Just how much, “this is going to hurt, but it’s for your own good” legislation have you seen make it through Congress?
You do need to widen your reading about how things work down here. There are many examples of legislation making the country a better place overall at the expense of some vested interests.
> [@](#):
>
> Since I wasn’t arguing that Bush could conceivably bear some blame for some unspecified storm in the future, your point is irrelevant. The point is that he isn’t responsible for _this one_ in any way, shape or form.
Where has anyone but you mentioned such a claim?
> [@](#):
>
> Because I say it’s not good form to argue this issue while the tragedy is still unfolding, that means that I think there’s never a time to discuss this? Nice leap.
Aparently that means you’re not going to answer the question about when \*would \* be a good time. Dodge.
> [@](#):
>
> Out of curiousity, if I felt strongly that god will punish the sinful, do you think the best time for me to say that would be, oh, the week after 9/11? And to claim that the WTC attack was God’s wrath on a decadent people like Jerry Falwell did? He sure picked a good time to make his point.
If that’s what you believe, then you should say so at the time it will have the most effect. Why would it be otherwise?
> [@](#):
>
> And what makes it worse is that the charge against Bush is completely false in the first place. You don’t need to lie in order to be heard.
Again, where the hell have you seen or heard this charge made? One of the tighty-righty blogs you endlessly parrot here? Your own imagination? Where? Or is your claim that there is such a charge simply a lie on your own part?
Cite or retract. Now.
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/68 "2005-09-01T13:07:19Z")
> [@JXJohns](#):
>
> And the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Well, I suppose if you want to believe that when you have one person on the ground telling you what they think the actual situation is and another who is spouting pure “party line” propaganda then the truth is in the middle, you are the type of person for whom propaganda is a very effective tool.
> [@](#):
>
> 1. Had Bush pushed for Kyoto, it would have been overwhelmingly rejected in the senate.
Speaking of strawmen…You seem to assume that the only two options were Kyoto or Bush’s essentially nothing approach. Actually, there were approaches in between, for example, the McCain-Lieberman Climate Stewardship Act which managed to garner like 42 votes in the Senate despite being [strongly opposed](http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/legislative/sap/108-1/s139sap-s.pdf) by the White House. If the White House had instead supported it, it probably could have passed rather easily.
**Finally, why is it that so many of the people in this thread continue to respond to the strawman of whether Bush can be held responsible for this one particular hurricane when so many of us have already pointed out that this is not the argument that was being made by those cited in the article. Please read first and post second.**
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/69 "2005-09-01T13:22:39Z")
So, is it fair to criticize Bush for dismantling components of FEMA that would have helped to deliver services more rapidly and mitigate the effects of the disaster? Is it fair to criticize him for putting inept cronies (such as his 2000 campaign manager) in positions of power at the agency?
[http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2004-09-22/cover.html](http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2004-09-22/cover.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Among emergency specialists, “mitigation”–the measures taken in advance to minimize the damage caused by natural disasters–is a crucial part of the strategy to save lives and cut recovery costs. But since 2001, key federal disaster mitigation programs, developed over many years, have been slashed and tossed aside. FEMA’s Project Impact, a model mitigation program created by the Clinton administration, has been canceled outright. Federal funding of post-disaster mitigation efforts designed to protect people and property from the next disaster has been cut in half, and now, communities across the country must compete for pre-disaster mitigation dollars.
>
> As a result, some state and local emergency managers say, it’s become more difficult to get the equipment and funds they need to most effectively deal with disasters. In North Carolina, a state regularly damaged by hurricanes and floods, FEMA recently refused the state’s request to buy backup generators for emergency support facilities. And the budget cuts have halved the funding for a mitigation program that saved an estimated $8.8 million in recovery costs in three eastern N.C. communities alone after 1999’s Hurricane Floyd. In Louisiana, another state vulnerable to hurricanes, requests for flood mitigation funds were rejected by FEMA this summer.
>
> Consequently, the residents of these and other disaster-prone states will find the government less able to help them when help is needed most, and both states and the federal government will be forced to shoulder more recovery costs after disasters strike.
>
> In addition, the White House has pushed for privatization of essential government services, including disaster management, and merged FEMA into the Department of Homeland Security, where natural disaster programs are often sidelined by counter-terrorism programs. Along the way, morale at FEMA has plummeted, and many of the agency’s most experienced personnel have left for work in other government agencies or private corporations.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/70 "2005-09-01T13:24:53Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#):
>
> … there have been Force 5 hurricanes before. One destroyed Galveston, long before Global Warming was a problem.
>
> What justifies the conclusion that they are connected?
See
[this thread that asks that very question](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=332736) for links providing that evidence.
In short, while there is no clear answer to whether or not _more_ hurricanes will occur as a consequence of global warming, there is little doubt that more of them will be more _severe_. Surface water temperatures are the engine of hurriciane severity. Increase those temperatures and the “typical” hurricane is more severe.
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### Author:  [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/71 "2005-09-01T14:03:56Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#):
>
> So, is it fair to criticize Bush for dismantling components of FEMA that would have helped to deliver services more rapidly and mitigate the effects of the disaster? Is it fair to criticize him for putting inept cronies (such as his 2000 campaign manager) in positions of power at the agency?
>
> [http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2004-09-22/cover.html](http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2004-09-22/cover.html)
Terrific cite, Hentor.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/72 "2005-09-01T14:33:50Z")
> [@Plynck](#):
>
> Terrific cite, Hentor.
It’s also important to note that it was written in September of last year, so it is hardly Monday morning quarterbacking. It’s kind of like Bush claiming today that nobody anticipated the levees breaking. Bullshit. They painfully anticipated it when Bush cut the funding for it. Surely, he should be personally accountable for the effects of his policies and decisions, right?
Where does the buck stop?
Here’s another portion from the article:
> [@](#):
>
> **Bush’s FEMA**
>
> From its first months in office, the Bush administration made it clear that emergency programs, like much of the federal government, were in for a major reorientation.
>
> At FEMA, President Bush appointed a close aide, Joe Allbaugh, to be the agency’s new director. Allbaugh had served as then-Gov. Bush’s chief of staff in Texas and as manager of his 2000 presidential campaign. […]
>
> Some FEMA veterans complained that Allbaugh had little experience in managing disasters, and the new administration’s early initiatives did little to settle their concerns. The White House quickly launched a government-wide effort to privatize public services, including key elements of disaster management. Bush’s first budget director, Mitch Daniels, spelled out the philosophy in remarks at an April 2001 conference: “The general idea–that the business of government is not to provide services, but to make sure that they are provided–seems self-evident to me,” he said.
>
> In a May 15, 2001, appearance before a Senate appropriations subcommittee, Allbaugh signaled that the new, stripped-down approach would be applied at FEMA as well. “Many are concerned that federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized entitlement program and a disincentive to effective state and local risk management,” he said. “Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level.”
>
> As a result, says a disaster program administrator who insists on anonymity, “We have to compete for our jobs–we have to prove that we can do it cheaper than a contractor.” And when it comes to handling disasters, the FEMA employee stresses, cheaper is not necessarily better, and the new outsourcing requirements sometimes slow the agency’s operations.
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### Author:  [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/73 "2005-09-01T15:09:13Z")
[http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-050831corps-story,1,2364215.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-050831corps-story,1,2364215.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true)
> [@](#):
>
> I’m not saying it wouldn’t still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was **ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps’ budget.**
Someone with actual experience fired for speaking honestly about the true costs of addressing a critical issue, replaced by a political stooge who’s main qualification is political loyalty, not professionalism or dedication to science and the public trust.
Where have we heard that before, like 80 times over and over again?
But of course, Rush Limbuagh says that looking at the political angle of something tragic is outrageous (as long as it isn’t a Republican doing it), so Bush needs to be let off the hook again, apparently.
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### Author:  [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/74 "2005-09-01T15:31:28Z")
“I don’t think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees.” is a statement much like "“I don’t think anyone anticipated that terrorists would fly planes into buildings.” It’s either a lie, or demonstrates an unacceptable degree of ignorance from our leaders. This exact occurance was #3 on FEMA’s list of biggest potential disasters. Bush, or at least whomever actually “anticipates” things when they make policy, if anyone, quashed research into how to better solve the problem. They then repeatedly quashed funding for the solutions that were being implemented. Policy choices have consequences.
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### Author:  [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/75 "2005-09-01T15:37:16Z")
Josh Marshall is going to town on this one:
[http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week\_2005\_08\_28.php#006374](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_08_28.php#006374)
> [@](#):
>
> Much was made at the time and since about the fact that James Lee Witt was the first head of FEMA who had a professional background in emergency and disaster management.
>
> No one seems to dispute the fact that prior to [Witt’s appointment in -Apos] 1993, the agency was a dumping ground for patronage hires. (The change was also furthered by a devastating 1992 GAO report.)
>
> President Bush replaced Witt with Joe Allbaugh, whose main qualification was that he was one of the president’s main political fixers from Texas.
>
> When Allbaugh left FEMA in 2003 to cash in on the Iraqi contracts bonanza, he was replaced by Michael Brown. Allbaugh originally brought Brown to FEMA as General Counsel. His qualification was that they were college buddies.
>
> When Allbaugh bailed, he apparently gave the top job to Brown.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/76 "2005-09-01T16:03:24Z")
> [@Apos](#):
>
> “I don’t think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees.” is a statement much like "“I don’t think anyone anticipated that terrorists would fly planes into buildings.” It’s either a lie, or demonstrates an unacceptable degree of ignorance from our leaders.
OK, then please provide complete details on when the next terror attack will occur in the US, what form it will take, who will be involved and how to prevent it. Please be specific, vague generalities are worthless.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/77 "2005-09-01T16:10:16Z")
Red herring. In both cases, the issue is that planes flown into buildings and levees breaking was something that was, in fact, discussed, and in the case of the levees, discussed pretty extensively not only when Katrina was still on the way, but for years. It was #3 on FEMA’s disaster scale: hardly a “vague generality.” In both cases, the statement that “no one” expected these things is simply false, especially after the fact when there is ample evidence that the situations were discussed and anticipated and the administration itself was instrumental in downplaying them but in firing people who complained that not enough attention was being given to them. If the statement was “I didn’t expect them” then maybe that might make some sense, but it still begs the question as to why not, when it’s your job to know these things and prepare for them.
But of course, you have a ready made excuse for everything. If terrorism funding is slashed and put on hold for other priorities, you can excuse it because, well terrorism is unpredictable. That’s a nonsensical retort.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/78 "2005-09-01T17:15:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> OK, then please provide complete details on when the next terror attack will occur in the US, what form it will take, who will be involved and how to prevent it. Please be specific, vague generalities are worthless.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
If this is what President Bush needs to prepare for an emergency or disaster, we need to get him out immediately and replace him with someone who is more realistically able to prepare for disasters.
Is this why he has been spectacularly unprepared for major disasters on his watch? Because he didn’t have a specific roadmap or timetable to know when they would come?
At the very least, he could stop lying about nobody anticipating that certain things would happen.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/79 "2005-09-01T17:36:41Z")
Kevin Drum has put together a clear timeline of the Bush administration policy towards FEMA and towards preparedness for this particular disaster.
[http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005\_09/007023.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_09/007023.php)
> [@](#):
>
> Actions have consequences. No one could predict that a hurricane the size of Katrina would hit this year, but the slow federal response when it did happen was no accident. It was the result of four years of deliberate Republican policy and budget choices. It’s the Bush administration in a nutshell.
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### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/80 "2005-09-01T18:52:42Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#):
>
> Is that true? :eek:
>
> I know some of the white supremacist groups were saying things like that, but that seems a bit much for WND. (which is an odd thing to type.)
Sorrt that this thread has jumped ahead of me, but it’s true, all right. WND only had the article up for a couple days before realizing that it wasn’t going to win them any popularity contests, but copies of it are still up at various places, including [here](http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:ZWD0d5gZ2pIJ:www.kacvtv.org/local/media/media13.shtml+worldnetdaily+%22sword+against+America%22&hl=en). Excerpt of what they wrote two days after the attack:
> [@](#):
>
> Is New York the head of the “Great Satan”? All that is evil in the world can be found in New York: MTV, the United Nations, the U.N. abortion programs, the Council on Foreign Relations, New Age Church of St. John the Divine, Wall Street greed, Madison Avenue manipulation and of course more confirmed AIDS cases than the rest of America combined. Let’s remember the filthy sodomite gay parade last summer in New York. Let’s remember all the New York politicians falling all over themselves to praise this sick spectacle.
>
> And let’s not forget that New Yorkers elected - by a landslide - the openly Marxist, treasonous and abortion-mongering, occultic Hillary to a Senate seat. All while fully knowing what she was all about.
>
> So are we all innocent here in New York? Are we innocent with our porno, drugs, filthy Jay Leno monologues, our idolatry, materialism and consumerism? Innocent when Republican Gov. George Pataki stands next to the blood-stained dictator of Communist China as he rings the opening bell for the stock market on Wall Street?
>
> For God’s sake, we are a nation that murders babies at nine months and then sell the body parts for pharmaceutical research. We are a nation that wants to hand over the Boy Scouts to the North American Man Boy Love Association. We buy our Christmas toys from Communist China - many of them made by political dissidents and Christians laboring in slave-labor gulags.
>
> Can the remnant in America help but honestly ask themselves: Is this the fulfillment of Revelation chapters 17 and 18 (Mystery Babylon) or has God raised up Shiite Islam as a sword against America?
I think that justifies my initial claim that WND did in fact blame the victims and praise the act of terrorism, and proves solidly that the people running the site are nuts.
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