# Have they no sense of decency? (Criticising Bush for Katarina)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 31, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423 "2005-08-31T14:25:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 9
### Author:  [@markdiscordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdiscordia)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/161 "2005-09-03T05:51:27Z")
The same article is being [carried in the Washington Post.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/02/AR2005090202065.html)
This should be the event that causes anyone who is not wholly gone into blind faith Bush-worship to give up.
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### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/162 "2005-09-03T05:59:57Z")
Do you have any cites indicating that what Melancon said is in fact accurate?
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### Author:  [@The\_Highwayman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Highwayman)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/163 "2005-09-03T06:19:20Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#):
>
> Does Bush get credit for personally stepping in and appealing to the mayor and governor to call for an evacuation? What if he hadn’t?
Think he was able to drag his ass out of the Lazyboy for that one?
Getting harder and harder to defend huh? How much worse does it have to get before you admit that this president is a failure and is at least partially responsible for the current situation? When does the buck stop? Tell me? When does he take responsibility for ONE of the things he has done to weaken this country? I’ll tell you what, I’m sick of it myself. I said this in '04 but I really mean it now, IF YOU VOTE FOR HIS PARTY IN '06 YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET. Sorry but that’s the way I feel about it. You have been warned over and over again about this colossal failure of a party. I weep for Lincoln, really I do.
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/164 "2005-09-03T06:37:58Z")
> [@squeegee](#):
>
> So: while GWB was in NO today, no helicopter relief was performed. People on rooftops were not rescued (by helicopter), supplies were not dropped (from helicopters).
He needed them as [backdrops for his photo op.](http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/02/photo-op-2/)
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### Author:  [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/165 "2005-09-03T14:36:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> [Here’s a quote:](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/02/earlyshow/main813097.shtml)
Thankyou, **BobLibDem**. I wasn’t doubting you, but it adds support to see it in print. This is just shameful.
And, to address some of \*\*Shodan’s \*\* points, if I may: Of course no one can predict when disaster or terrorism will strike. One uses the best information at hand (such as intelligence agencies and weather services) and reacts accordingly. After that, the important thing is how to deal with the situation when it occurs. We have all seen reports of how Homeland Security funding is responsible for dispatching very expensive equipment to the Mid-West (and a lot of that is spin IMHO). And it would be forgivable if Homeland Security also had evacuation and emergency plans for areas that are deemed at risk. From numerous cites above, New Orleans was clearly at risk. Hell, anyone who has visited the city knows that it is below sea level, and relies on the levees and pumps. Whether or not you believe that work by the Army Corps could have lessened the damage, it doesn’t lessen damage done by the government’s tardy response in providing evacuation and supplies to the city once it became clear how bad things were.
Just to revisit FEMA’s cluelessness: I am now listening to NPR Weekend Edition. They are interviewing a man who left NO for Memphis. I think they said his name is Randy Adams (not sure, the interview will be online as of Monday afternoon). He and his family had an evacuation plan. He watched the weather reports, knew how bad it was going to be (he was talking about upper level steering currents and high pressure systems), and they left the city. This guy had a better idea of what was going on than FEMA. He was, from his self description, middle class, and had the means to pick up and move. Those less well-off had no such options at their disposal, and the government is supposed to be there for those people.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/166 "2005-09-03T14:54:11Z")
[Here](http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=100857) is the resume for Bush’s current head of FEMA.
> [@](#):
>
> The federal official in charge of the bungled New Orleans rescue was fired from his last private-sector job overseeing horse shows.
>
> And before joining the Federal Emergency Management Agency as a deputy director in 2001, GOP activist Mike Brown had no significant experience that would have qualified him for the position.
>
> The Oklahoman got the job through an old college friend who at the time was heading up FEMA. […]
>
> Brown - formerly an estates and family lawyer - this week has has made several shocking public admissions, including interviews where he suggested FEMA was unaware of the misery and desperation of refugees stranded at the New Orleans convention center.
>
> Before joining the Bush administration in 2001, Brown spent 11 years as the commissioner of judges and stewards for the International Arabian Horse Association, a breeders’ and horse-show organization based in Colorado. […]
>
> Brown was forced out of the position after a spate of lawsuits over alleged supervision failures.
>
> ``He was asked to resign,’’ Bill Pennington, president of the IAHA at the time, confirmed last night.
>
> Soon after, Brown was invited to join the administration by his old Oklahoma college roommate Joseph Allbaugh, the previous head of FEMA until he quit in 2003 to work for the president’s re-election campaign.
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/167 "2005-09-03T19:33:15Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#):
>
> [Here](http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=100857) is the resume for Bush’s current head of FEMA.
So…what’s next for him? Secretary of Defense, Supreme Court Justice, or Secretary of State?
-Joe
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/168 "2005-09-03T21:03:15Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#):
>
> I did a whole bunch of criticizing of Bush earlier
Cite?
Yeah, right, it’ll come right after your cite for the Bush-haters blaming him for this storm specifically. I ain’t waitin’ up with the porch light on, though.
> [@](#):
>
> I think it’s time to calm down now with the blame game stuff.
Please do.
> [@](#):
>
> And then heads should roll, whether they are Democrats or Republicans.
When have you ever called for a Republican head to roll?
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/169 "2005-09-03T21:08:19Z")
> [@Merijeek](#):
>
> So…what’s next for him? Secretary of Defense, Supreme Court Justice, or Secretary of State?
>
> -Joe
Well, I don’t know about that, but the first stop will be a Presidential Medal of Freedom.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/170 "2005-09-03T21:59:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Cite?
C’mon **Elvis** , this is **Sam** we’re talking about. Given his natural leanings, I thought he did a damned _fine_ Michael Moore impression. It’s just mean spirited to complain about the quantity of blood that can be squeezed from a stone. The miracle is that you get _any at all_.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/171 "2005-09-03T22:42:01Z")
> [@Squink](#):
>
> C’mon **Elvis** , this is **Sam** we’re talking about. Given his natural leanings, I thought he did a damned _fine_ Michael Moore impression. It’s just mean spirited to complain about the quantity of blood that can be squeezed from a stone. The miracle is that you get _any at all_.
Piss off with the cheap shots. You want to attack me, take it to the pit. I’ll be there with bells on. If not, learn to control your juvenile impulses.
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### Author:  [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/172 "2005-09-03T22:56:46Z")
> [@Merijeek](#):
>
> So…what’s next for him? Secretary of Defense, Supreme Court Justice, or Secretary of State?
>
> -Joe
I smell a Medal of Freedom!
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/173 "2005-09-03T22:58:37Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#):
>
> Piss off with the cheap shots. You want to attack me, take it to the pit. I’ll be there with bells on. If not, learn to control your juvenile impulses.
**Sam** , I was **agreeing** with you. You’ve done a pretty decent job of looking at the situation objectively.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/174 "2005-09-03T23:01:03Z")
What I’m sort of concerned about is image. Yes, I know image isn’t truth, but it certainly makes it easier to spin in the way you want it. There’s a meme going around that left-leaning blogs and people are mostly ignoring the crisis in favor of scoring political points and making attacks on the current administration. Yes, I know many people may find it justified. Yes, I know the meme is coming from those most likely to be biased in that direction, and have the most to gain from it. But I can’t help but be a tad concerned, because no matter where it comes from, and why it’s there, it’s there, and when self-proclaimed liberals brag about their refusal to contribute to hurrican victims because they’re from red states, no matter how minor they may be, it just makes it easier for conservatives to dig up and trumpet in the future. To me, it’s not a matter of how justified it is or isn’t - it’s a matter of how and when to proceed. Does that make sense?
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/175 "2005-09-03T23:27:11Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#):
>
> Does Bush get credit for personally stepping in and appealing to the mayor and governor to call for an evacuation?
No. As Chris Rock might say, “what to you want, a cookie? You’re _supposed_ to do that!” This is basic blocking and tackling we’re talking about, and an offensive lineman who allows a sack cannot defend himself later by pointing out a good block he made on the previous play.
As for the topic, I’ll just repost my comments from [this related Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=333006):
> [@Dewey Cheatem Undhow](#):
>
> I absolutely goddamn cannot fucking believe anyone is making an even tepid defense of the Bush administration here. If he has any decency at all, he’ll resign when the crisis ends. There’s no ideological conflict here – this is strictly about governmental competence in executing one its basic functions.
>
> And I say this as a solid conservative. My credentials in this regard are, I believe, well-established on these boards. I am ashamed (but not entirely surprised) that some of my ideological brethren find it possible post-Katrina to continue supporting this White House.
> [@Dewey Cheatem Undhow](#):
>
> Furthermore, I don’t hold the administration responsible for much of anything in the immediate aftermath of the storm. It’s the enormous fuckups in the last five days that engender my wrath.
>
> My plan for restoring power to New Orleans: we hook up generators to Teddy Roosevelt’s grave, and harness the tremendous spinning therein. Teddy didn’t fuck around during the 1904 San Fransico earthquake, and neither should Bush today. Every goddamn bus in a ten-state area should have been commandeered on Tuesday and taken to New Orleans, damn the legalities, and let anyone who’s upset by that bring a lawsuit. Ditto for every site in a ten-state area, large or small, capable of handling refugees. There are church camps all over east Texas – why aren’t they being used?
>
> I say this with absolute seriousness: I disagree with John Kerry on just about everything, but if Katrina had hit last year, I would have voted for him. Incompetence of this magnitude just cannot be rewarded.
> [@Dewey Cheatem Undhow](#):
>
> They should both [Bush and Cheney] resign, along with every cabinet secretary whose job has anything to do with disaster response. A Denny Hastert presidency would not be terrible.
>
> There was a time when an enormous demonstration of incompetence (rather than Nixon-like corruption) would yield resignations at the top of an administration. I’m curious: has this happened in modern times, or am I just wishing for the dignity of a bygone age?
Frankly, I just don’t have words strong enough in my vocabulary to articulate my complete and utter disgust at this point.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/176 "2005-09-03T23:49:34Z")
> [@Leaper](#):
>
> […] when self-proclaimed liberals brag about their refusal to contribute to hurrican victims because they’re from red states, no matter how minor they may be, it just makes it easier for conservatives to dig up and trumpet in the future.
That would indeed be a disgusting thing to do, much less brag about. Do you have a cite for any “self-proclaimed liberals” actually saying any such thing?
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/177 "2005-09-04T00:04:53Z")
Neither does **Sam** , obviously. Can’t expect either of them to say which blog they’re parroting, though, just complaints when pressed that they’re being attacked _personally_. Same tired old shit.
**Dewey** , do you seriously expect any sort of serious inquiry from the GOP Congress that won’t explore the Iraq clusterfuck either? We _may_ be on the verge of finding just how strong partisan loyalty, or at least the calculation of it, runs among them
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/178 "2005-09-04T00:23:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> **Dewey** , do you seriously expect any sort of serious inquiry from the GOP Congress that won’t explore the Iraq clusterfuck either? We _may_ be on the verge of finding just how strong partisan loyalty, or at least the calculation of it, runs among them
I actually do expect a serious inquiry, albeit one that will not be inquiring too deeply above the agency-head level. Then again, we don’t really need one: the mistakes made are readily apparant and mindnumbingly basic.
I don’t think this is the sort of thing that requires outright impeachment and removal, either. But in a more genteel time, resignation would be the only acceptable course.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/179 "2005-09-04T00:57:25Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> That would indeed be a disgusting thing to do, much less brag about. Do you have a cite for any “self-proclaimed liberals” actually saying any such thing?
[This blog item](http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001782.htm) is what I had in mind. The author claims selective quoting, but the fact that the author was considering, even for a moment, the course of action he was considering, just plays into the other side’s hands, which is what I was talking about.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-they-no-sense-of-decency-criticising-bush-for-katarina/319423/180 "2005-09-04T01:03:58Z")
I should add that the fact that the author chose to reveal his “first thoughts” at all, and in so much detail, adds to my impression that he’s really not all that sorry he considered it in the first place.
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