# Have vegans gone too far? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 27, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275 "2004-09-27T06:51:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/21 "2004-09-27T23:15:55Z")
Yeah, bees pretty much have a hive mentality. > [@](#): > > Milk is produced by cows, honey is produced by bees from the nectar they get from flowers. Milk doesn’t come from grass, not directly anyway, . . . Oh, great. Now I have an image of cow-bees flying around and storing grass in cells, where it turns into milk. This is going to stick with me all day. On the other hand, they’re kinda cute. About six inches tall. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/22 "2004-09-27T23:31:28Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > As fate would have it, Good Eats tonight is about honey, so I can add a minor correction. No bees around when they get to the wax-scraping part. So any bee-death would occur when the hives are opened and the trays removed. According to a doper beekeeper whose name I can’t remember, bee deaths in captivity aren’t limited to accident - the beekeper can often find himself needing to cull large numbers of bees. But I don’t think that’s quite the point; most vegans tend to avoid animal products _on principle_, regardless of whether the animal(s) producing the product actually suffered measurably. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/23 "2004-09-28T01:17:00Z")
I"m not a vegan- I’m a meat eater 100%. However, if your personal ethics forbid you from eating anything that is an animal product , how could you eat honey? Whether or not you think that’s batshit crazy or not, it’s their personal code of ethics that they stand by. :: shrug:: Gone to far? I say no. It’s something that affects them personally, not you. They’re not snatching your little bear full 'o honey and lecturing you on bee abuse right? Then I guess it’s not going to far yet. ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/24 "2004-09-28T06:05:03Z")
> [@remisser](#): > > I > My question is: Are vegans getting carried away? Should we all not eat honey because we’re crapping on the bees hard work? > > Also, aside from honey, are there any other products that are made through the hard work of animals that vegans should avoid eating? 😉 I knew a person who wouldn’t eat bread because it killed yeast. Also, he wouldn’t eat broccoli because if you hooked it up to an eeg machine, it got readings when sliced. To him, this meant broccoli was “evolved” and “could feel pain.” So he didn’t eat broccoli either, just to be safe. I told him that showering and wearing clothes killed millions of microscopic organisms living on your skin. He had troble finding a solution there. BTW, the go-bots fought the evil Vegan Empire. For a reason. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/25 "2004-09-28T06:36:37Z")
> [@remisser](#): > > I just found out recently that there are some sets of vegans who will not consume honey. Their reasoning for this is that honey is produced by the bees, and taking away something they worked hard to make is against the vegan code of ethics. Sure, honey is not a living thing, but humans steal the honey from them. (Since vegans consider insects animals and they are to not consume animal products.) > > My question is: Are vegans getting carried away? Should we all not eat honey because we’re crapping on the bees hard work? > > Also, aside from honey, are there any other products that are made through the hard work of animals that vegans should avoid eating? 😉 So, no wax candles also. ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/26 "2004-09-28T06:55:01Z")
Gone too far? Well, of course they’ve gone too far for me. Otherwise, I would be a vegan. As it is, I like chomping on the flesh of innocent animals. I don’t get what “gone too far” means. Do you think we should legislate against them or something? And funny, I thought all vegans were against eating honey. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/27 "2004-09-28T18:27:52Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m a meat eater 100%. At least go take a look at the salad bar. It’s free with the steak. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/28 "2004-09-28T21:07:50Z")
> [@Zette](#): > > if your personal ethics forbid you from eating anything that is an animal product , how could you eat honey? Okay, I’m a vegan that eats honey. :eek: Vegans are that way for a variety of reasons. Not all vegans refuse to eat animal products due to personal ethics. Some do it for health reasons. Some, like myself, just think eating animal products is icky. Others do it for animal rights. Human beings are so unique and complex, it’s silly to assume there’s any one uniform reason for any particular belief or lifestyle. Myself? I eat honey because to me, it’s not the flesh or bodily fluids of an animal. Flesh or bodily fluids of an animal? Kinda nasty. To _me_. (Usual disclaimer: I don’t _ever_ force my views on others. In fact, I strive to keep my veganism a private matter and avoid even telling people, just so I don’t catch any shit). Now, there will probably be a hoard of people rushing in to “prove me wrong.” To them, all I have to say is: bugger off. My beliefs are my own. So long as I don’t try to force them on anyone else, who the hell are you to try to second guess them? Now go eat your steak and let me munch my carrots in peace. Thank you and goodnight. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/29 "2004-09-28T22:11:53Z")
What exactly is honey, anyway? I always assumed it was sort of bee poo, but I’m assuming that would rule it out of lezler’s diet… ('cus poo is nastier than milk, IMHO) ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/30 "2004-09-28T23:02:34Z")
I think if it were bee poo it would rule it out of most people’s diets. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/31 "2004-09-28T23:03:46Z")
Honey is bee barf. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/32 "2004-09-28T23:11:01Z")
So, I did some quick honey research… [http://www.pa.msu.edu/~sciencet/ask\_st/073097.html](http://www.pa.msu.edu/~sciencet/ask_st/073097.html) Kinda gross, really. Not going to stop eating it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/33 "2004-09-28T23:19:12Z")
Found an interesting article on bee barf: [http://www.bumblebarf.com/bbarfart.html](http://www.bumblebarf.com/bbarfart.html) After the foraging bee barfs its load into a house bee: > [@](#): > > The house bee has two main processing responsibilities. The first is to dehydrate the nectar into a stable product with batch to batch consistency. This is accomplished by vomiting the nectar and chewing it down over and over again. Each cycle of the process takes about twenty seconds. Given that on the average a house bee will work approximately fifteen to twenty minutes on each droplet of nectar, that translates into about fifty chew-swallow-regurgitate cycles – guaranteed to eventually dry out even the watery-est nectar. When the nectar’s water content reaches an agreed upon concentration (set by arbitrated agreement between management and labor) the house bee stops chewing and adds the partially digested nectar to a cell in the honey comb. It is here that the second processing responsibility of the house bee is accomplished . . . being the injection of an enzyme to further break down the sucrose. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/34 "2004-09-28T23:21:44Z")
So what exactly does your spouse mean when he or she calls you “Honey” ? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/35 "2004-09-28T23:31:26Z")
Come to think of it, some birds feed their chicks bird barf, dogs wolf down barf of all sorts, and a few members of my rugby team . . . (well, we’ll just not go there). So tell us, remisser, who are going too far in your opinion: (a) People prefering not to eat avian barf; (b) People prefering not to eat mamalian barf; © People prefering not to eat insect barf. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/36 "2004-09-28T23:53:38Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > So what exactly does your spouse mean when he or she calls you “Honey” ? That he’s looking for an excuse not to perform oral sex? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/37 "2004-09-28T23:57:28Z")
No vegan has ever forced me to eat broccoli. I won’t force them to eat honey. ---
**Author:** ![kitarak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kitarak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitarak)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/38 "2004-09-29T00:47:04Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > How could vegans possibly go _too far_? - they’re all so weak and feeble from malnutrition, they can hardly go _anywhere_. I know this is probably intended as a joke, but it’s really not true. My diet is practically vegan, and I’m not at all malnourished. Further, the only true vegan I know is probably one of the healthiest people I know - he does ridiculous amounts of exercise, and always has more energy. The stereotype of a malnourished vegan may well have some basis in reality, but only because people in general don’t know how to manage their diet, and vegans who don’t know how to manage their diet tend to get into trouble pretty quickly. As to the honey thing. I’ll admit I find it going a bit far, but really only in the sense that I wouldn’t do it. I simply can’t bring myself to care about insects. If they don’t want to eat it, good for them. Not my call to judge it. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/39 "2004-09-29T03:11:36Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > It’s said [occasionally](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=Vegan+honey+%22stealing%22). Mind you, the reason I hadn’t heard of it is probably because I don’t exactly live in vegan paradise. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275/40 "2004-09-29T03:50:05Z")
Like all threads, this one reminds me of a Futurama quote: Leela: How can you trick people into drinking something that comes from your behind? It’s disgusting! Giant Slug: Is it? Honey comes from a bee’s behind, milk comes from a cow’s behind. And have you ever used toothpaste? Fry: Who’s behins does that come from? Giant Slug: You don’t want to know. Granted, they were wrong in saying honey is from a behind, but they had a theme going and didn’t want to ruin it. And since we’re on the topic of honey, I will mentio something not everyone knows, but is very important: NEVER give honey to a child under the age of one, and to be safe, not even until they’re two. Honey has botulism spores, and while child and adult stomachs are acidic enough to kill it, a baby’s isn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-vegans-gone-too-far/266275.md?page=3)