# Have we been sold out by Ms. Pelosi and the Democrats on the Iraq war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079 "2007-01-07T20:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/201 "2007-01-12T20:22:13Z")
Just another “isolated incident”… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/202 "2007-01-12T20:25:53Z")
[QUOTE=Bugles] The bill “extends for the first time the federal minimum wage to the U.S. territory of the Northern Mariana Islands. However, it exempts American Samoa, another Pacific island territory that would become the only U.S. territory not subject to federal minimum-wage laws.” One of the “biggest opponents of the federal minimum wage in Samoa is StarKist Tuna, which owns one of the two packing plants that together employ more than 5,000 Samoans, or nearly 75 percent of the island’s work force.” [/QUOTE] Duh. Several territories haven’t used the same minimum wage standard as the rest of the United States for decades. This current legislation ended that state of affairs for the Nothern Mariana Islands. It didn’t end it for American Samoa. If the Republican party thought that it was a terrible injustice that the minimum wage in American Samoa didn’t match the rest of the country, why didn’t they do crap about it at any time over the last 50 years? No … it’s only an issue now because it can be used as a club to attack Pelosi with. Yes StarKist is headquartered in her district. Yes they benefit from this legislation. But they haven’t given her any lobbying money, and there’s no indication of anything underhanded going on. Baseless smear. It’s all you’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/203 "2007-01-12T20:27:26Z")
The Democrats said they had a new plan for Iraq, they ran on that promise, though they wouldn’t say what it was. They were elected. It is almost three months later and the new plan for Iraq has not been revealed, except for opposition to anything Bush wants. Is that the new plan? ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/204 "2007-01-12T20:28:43Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] … The Democrats ran and won talking about Republican corruption and Republican failure. [/QUOTE] and I thought it was about Iraq? "Iraq has become the central issue of the midterm elections. There is more dismay about how the U.S. military effort in Iraq is going than at any point since the war began more than three years ago. And the war is the dominant concern among the majority of voters who say they will be thinking about national issues, rather than local issues, when they cast their ballot for Congress this fall. " [http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=290](http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=290) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/205 "2007-01-12T20:30:56Z")
[QUOTE=Bugles] Except that Pelosi and her conspirators campaigned on ending “earmarks” and pork… [/QUOTE] Of which this is neither. It doesn’t involve any expenditure of federal money. It sounds to me like you’re opposed on principle to representatives advancing legislation that benefits businesses within their districts. Kind of an odd position to find on the right, but whatever. You should be well pissed-off when it comes time to debate farm legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/206 "2007-01-12T20:31:38Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Duh. Several territories haven’t used the same minimum wage standard as the rest of the United States for decades. This current legislation ended that state of affairs for the Nothern Mariana Islands. It didn’t end it for American Samoa. If the Republican party thought that it was a terrible injustice that the minimum wage in American Samoa didn’t match the rest of the country, why didn’t they do crap about it at any time over the last 50 years? No … it’s only an issue now because it can be used as a club to attack Pelosi with. Yes StarKist is headquartered in her district. Yes they benefit from this legislation. But they haven’t given her any lobbying money, and there’s no indication of anything underhanded going on. Baseless smear. It’s all you’ve got. [/QUOTE] Why does it exempt ONLY American Samoa? The bony finger Pelosi waves in the camera smells fishy… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/207 "2007-01-12T20:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=harveyc] and I thought it was about Iraq? [/QUOTE] Is there a better example of Republican corruption and Republican failure? ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/208 "2007-01-12T20:37:31Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Is there a better example of Republican corruption and Republican failure? [/QUOTE] Not at all, but it seems to avoid the fact that the Iraq war and bringing our soldiers home was the main issue in the 2006 mid-term elections and it should be the priority for the people we elected. ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/209 "2007-01-12T20:37:52Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Of which this is neither. It doesn’t involve any expenditure of federal money. It sounds to me like you’re opposed on principle to representatives advancing legislation that benefits businesses within their districts. Kind of an odd position to find on the right, but whatever. You should be well pissed-off when it comes time to debate farm legislation. [/QUOTE] It sounds to me like you agree with Mz Pelosi in denying minimum wage protection as long as it furthers your PROGRESSIVE agenda. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/210 "2007-01-12T20:38:49Z")
[QUOTE=Bugles] Why does it exempt ONLY American Samoa? [/QUOTE] Who knows? Pelosi has already stated she hasn’t been lobbied by the tuna industry and that sort of thing is a matter of public record. If you have evidence of illegal or unethical influence you should produce it instead of making these baseless accusations. In any case, as I keep saying, **there’s nothing wrong with a representative sponsoring legislation that advances the business interests of his constituents.** It only becomes a problem if the congressman is accepting bribes or illegal campaign contributions, or if the legislation results in excessive tax breaks or earmarks or pork that drain the public treasury. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/211 "2007-01-12T20:42:08Z")
[QUOTE=Bugles] Why does it exempt ONLY American Samoa? The bony finger Pelosi waves in the camera smells fishy… [/QUOTE] I’m desperately pleased that you are so concerned about the wages made by those in American Samoa! You must be very supportive of the Democratic efforts to get wages everywhere increased! If you are truly this upset about the wages paid to those in American Samoa, I would suggest that the owner of the bony finger you should be most interested in is not Nancy Pelosi, but Elaine Chao, appointee of George W. Bush and wife of Republican Sen. Mitch McConnell. You see, the wages paid to those in American Samoa are set by the [Department of Labor](http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/americanSamoa/ASminwage.htm) > [@](#): > > The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), applies generally to employment within American Samoa as it does to employment within the United States. The minimum wage rates for American Samoa are set by a special industry committee (29 U.S.C. 205, 29 C.F.R. Part 511) appointed by the U.S. Department of Labor, as required by the Act. So, I’m glad you join with us in celebration of the increase in the minimum wage. Please do let us know how your contacts with Mrs. Chao go. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/212 "2007-01-12T20:46:04Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Who knows? Pelosi has already stated she hasn’t been lobbied by the tuna industry and that sort of thing is a matter of public record. If you have evidence of illegal or unethical influence you should produce it instead of making these baseless accusations. In any case, as I keep saying, **there’s nothing wrong with a representative sponsoring legislation that advances the business interests of his constituents.** It only becomes a problem if the congressman is accepting bribes or illegal campaign contributions, or if the legislation results in excessive tax breaks or earmarks or pork that drain the public treasury. [/QUOTE] I am SO STUPID!!! I’ve been missing your point all along!!! You’re a Democrat…Nancy’s a Democrat!!! As long as the lowly wage earner is getting it in the pooper, it’s all good!!! Thanks for making your position crystal clear!!! How very clever and PROGRESSIVE!!! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/213 "2007-01-12T20:50:31Z")
[QUOTE=Bugles] It sounds to me like you agree with Mz Pelosi in denying minimum wage protection as long as it furthers your PROGRESSIVE agenda. [/QUOTE] **In principle** I believe that every person in the United States should be paid a reasonable minimum wage. However, I will acknowledge that **in practice** differing economic circumstance may require remote territories to have a different minimum wage than the 50 states do. I don’t know enough about the economic situation in American Samoa to know what a fair minimum wage there should be and whether or not it should be included under the umbrella of the national minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/214 "2007-01-12T20:54:45Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] I’m desperately pleased that you are so concerned about the wages made by those in American Samoa! You must be very supportive of the Democratic efforts to get wages everywhere increased! If you are truly this upset about the wages paid to those in American Samoa, I would suggest that the owner of the bony finger you should be most interested in is not Nancy Pelosi, but Elaine Chao, appointee of George W. Bush and wife of Republican Sen. Mitch McConnell. You see, the wages paid to those in American Samoa are set by the [Department of Labor](http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/americanSamoa/ASminwage.htm)So, I’m glad you join with us in celebration of the increase in the minimum wage. Please do let us know how your contacts with Mrs. Chao go. Good luck! [/QUOTE] Perhaps you should become informed of that which you speak. [http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070112-120720-2734r.htm](http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070112-120720-2734r.htm) As this legislation was passed THIS WEEK. ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/215 "2007-01-12T20:56:18Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] **In principle** I believe that every person in the United States should be paid a reasonable minimum wage. However, I will acknowledge that **in practice** differing economic circumstance may require remote territories to have a different minimum wage than the 50 states do. I don’t know enough about the economic situation in American Samoa to know what a fair minimum wage there should be and whether or not it should be included under the umbrella of the national minimum wage. [/QUOTE] Smelling the fish, eh? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/216 "2007-01-12T21:03:24Z")
[QUOTE=Bugles] I am SO STUPID!!! I’ve been missing your point all along!!! You’re a Democrat…Nancy’s a Democrat!!! As long as the lowly wage earner is getting it in the pooper, it’s all good!!! Thanks for making your position crystal clear!!! How very clever and PROGRESSIVE!!! [/QUOTE] You’re grasping at straws. The Democrats have just passed a new minimum wage bill that the Republicans have opposed for years. Now you’re complaining that because it doesn’t cover **every single worker** under U.S. jurisdiction (even workers that weren’t covered under the previous minimum wage law) the Democrats are the ones who are anti-labor? If the Republican Party really wanted to rectify the minimum wage situation in American Samoa they had ample opportunity to do so when they were in power. And Nancy Pelosi would have been in no position to stop them. No, you don’t really care about the workers in Samoa. You’re just looking for a club to hit the Democrats with. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/217 "2007-01-12T21:05:08Z")
[QUOTE=Bugles] Smelling the fish, eh? [/QUOTE] I have no idea what this means. Is this a catch phrase from some right-wing blog? ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/218 "2007-01-12T21:05:10Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] **In principle** I believe that every person in the United States should be paid a reasonable minimum wage. However, I will acknowledge that **in practice** differing economic circumstance may require remote territories to have a different minimum wage than the 50 states do. I don’t know enough about the economic situation in American Samoa to know what a fair minimum wage there should be and whether or not it should be included under the umbrella of the national minimum wage. [/QUOTE] Either it is a NATIONAL minimum, or it isn’t. These are line workers in a fish factory. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/219 "2007-01-12T21:08:37Z")
[QUOTE=Bugles] Perhaps you should become informed of that which you speak. [http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070112-120720-2734r.htm](http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070112-120720-2734r.htm) As this legislation was passed THIS WEEK. [/QUOTE] Right. Your cite says nothing about having changed the regulation of the minimum wage in American Samoa. I’m assuming that it is still regulated by the Department of Labor. So I would again encourage you to take your fight for the minimum wage rights of American Samoans to Elaine Chao. God bless you in your struggles! ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/220 "2007-01-12T21:09:33Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] You’re grasping at straws. The Democrats have just passed a new minimum wage bill that the Republicans have opposed for years. Now you’re complaining that because it doesn’t cover **every single worker** under U.S. jurisdiction (even workers that weren’t covered under the previous minimum wage law) the Democrats are the ones who are anti-labor? If the Republican Party really wanted to rectify the minimum wage situation in American Samoa they had ample opportunity to do so when they were in power. And Nancy Pelosi would have been in no position to stop them. No, you don’t really care about the workers in Samoa. You’re just looking for a club to hit the Democrats with. [/QUOTE] I’m complaining because the minimum wage law passed by the new HONEST DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS SPECIFICALLY EXEMPTS WORKERS FOR A COMPANY BASED IN NANCY PELOSI’s HOME DISTRICT. Is that clear enough? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079.md?page=12)