# Have we been sold out by Ms. Pelosi and the Democrats on the Iraq war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079 "2007-01-07T20:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/241 "2007-01-12T23:08:51Z")
Did you actually just compare the minimum wage to slavery? Lieberman being for principle and truth; that’s interesting, seeing as how he’s now backed off from his campaign pledge of investigating Katrina and is as gung-ho as Bush is for escalating the war. Let me try to phrase this in a way that you can understand: American Samoa is a U.S. possession. It has only 58,000 people (less than 18,000 workers), and thus the economy cannot be expected to react the same way that ours does. I couldn’t find any information about their wages, but there might just not be a need to increase their minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/242 "2007-01-12T23:09:26Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] You mean the Lieberman who campaigned by downplaying and running away from his pro-war stance? Or maybe the Lieberman who played up the need to have documentation about the administration’s handling of Katrina and then, when he was safely elected, decided that the committee he was chair of, the Committee on Homeland Security, shouldn’t try to subpeona that information after all. Or maybe it was the Lieberman who started his own party in order to run when his own party members decided he’d spent too much time with his nose up Bush’s ass, and then never bothered to become a member of that party and continues to claim Democratic credentials, especially when doing so can get him mentioned in one of his idol’s speeches as an example of bipartisanship (never mind that neither of the two parties mentioned in that context is the Democratic party). That Lieberman? [/QUOTE] You forgot the tsunami!!! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/243 "2007-01-12T23:09:58Z")
> [@Bugles](#): > > Screamin’ Deanie could not have maligned him better. You are a credit to your delusion. What does this even mean? ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/244 "2007-01-12T23:15:24Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Did you actually just compare the minimum wage to slavery? Lieberman being for principle and truth; that’s interesting, seeing as how he’s now backed off from his campaign pledge of investigating Katrina and is as gung-ho as Bush is for escalating the war. Let me try to phrase this in a way that you can understand: American Samoa is a U.S. possession. It has only 58,000 people (less than 18,000 workers), and thus the economy cannot be expected to react the same way that ours does. I couldn’t find any information about their wages, but there might just not be a need to increase their minimum wage. [/QUOTE] Always an excuse, isn’t there? Did I compare the minimum wage to slavery? YES! Either ALL Americans are treated equally or not. Apparently not under the NEW HONEST DEMOCRATS. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/245 "2007-01-12T23:31:17Z")
[QUOTE=Bugles] Screamin’ Deanie could not have maligned him better. You are a credit to your delusion. [/QUOTE] The delusion is entirely on your side. ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/246 "2007-01-12T23:40:08Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] The delusion is entirely on your side. [/QUOTE] Hard to argue with spirited debate of that magnitude. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/247 "2007-01-12T23:45:52Z")
Both \*\*Bugles \*\* and \*\*harveyc \*\* seem to be using the same stick to beat the Democrats – that they’re being insufficiently zealous. They’re holding hearings on Iraq … but they suck because they’re not defunding the Iraq war immediately. They raised the minimum wage for the first time in ten years … but they suck because they’re not extending it to include American Samoa. This is supposed to demonstrate … something. That they’re dishonest hypocrites, I guess, only interested in playing politics … . It’s like it doesn’t matter what laws are actually enacted. All that matters is how the two parties stack up on some abstract scoreboard of moral purity. Screw that. I don’t care if the Democrats are perfect or not. I care if they get things done and move the country in the right direction. And right now they’re doing just that. They’re passing legislation I (a hard-core Democrat) mostly like. And, from what I read on the web, most of the other hard-core Democrats agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/248 "2007-01-12T23:51:20Z")
[QUOTE=Bugles] Screamin’ Deanie could not have maligned him better. You are a credit to your delusion. [/QUOTE] You, however, are not a credit to this Forum. You will not post direct personal insults to other posters outside the **BBQ Pit**. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/249 "2007-01-12T23:53:09Z")
**jayjay** , please do not feed into bad behavior. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/250 "2007-01-12T23:53:09Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] You, however, are not a credit to this Forum. You will not post direct personal insults to other posters outside the **BBQ Pit**. [/Moderating] [/QUOTE] Tom, if my riposte to that post of his also falls under that, my apologies. I forgot we were in GD. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/251 "2007-01-12T23:54:33Z")
What? Does this LOOK like the **Pit**? C’mon. We’ve dusted and everything. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/252 "2007-01-12T23:55:37Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] What? Does this LOOK like the **Pit**? C’mon. We’ve dusted and everything. [/QUOTE] Hey, when you’re reading everything from the user control panel, it all looks alike… ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/253 "2007-01-13T00:13:44Z")
I like dogs. If that offends anybody at all, I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/254 "2007-01-13T00:26:37Z")
If anyone truly wishes to read a rather good explanatory article about the minimum wage issues as it relates to American Samoa and the Northern Marianas > **[Minimum-Wage Bill Stirs Controversy in Pacific Islands](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/08/AR2007010801641.html)** > > Latest politics news headlines from Washington DC. Follow 2006 elections,campaigns,Democrats,Republicans,political cartoons,opinions from The Washington Post. Features government policy,government tech,political analysis and reports. As a comparison, government workers in American Samoa make $7.99/hr. The cannery workers make $3.60/hr on average. Cannery workers are **40%** of the Island’s workforce. If the canneries shut down, that would sure help their economy. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/255 "2007-01-13T00:34:52Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] If anyone truly wishes to read a rather good explanatory article about the minimum wage issues as it relates to American Samoa and the Northern Marianas [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/08/AR2007010801641.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/08/AR2007010801641.html) As a comparison, government workers in American Samoa make $7.99/hr. The cannery workers make $3.60/hr on average. Cannery workers are **40%** of the Island’s workforce. If the canneries shut down, that would sure help their economy. ☹ [/QUOTE] But, but, the Dems say we need the minimum wage increase and that it will not force job loss… ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/256 "2007-01-13T00:35:27Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] … They’re holding hearings on Iraq … but they suck because they’re not defunding the Iraq war immediately. And, from what I read on the web, most of the other hard-core Democrats agree with me. [/QUOTE] Hearings? That is saving our troops lives in Iraq, right? And there are many hard core and soft core Democrats now saying the only way to stop this failed war is to defund it. If the Iraq supplemental is enacted next month, which is a vote to fund or defund, the President will have enough funding to last to the end of his term. So what good was it to change power in the Congress for, by far, the most important issue in the 2006 campaign? I think you are trying to deflect the failure of those whom we elected to address the issue they were elected to address. ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/257 "2007-01-13T00:40:26Z")
I need to apologize to harveyc for taking this thread off topic…I didn’t mean to address other failings of the new, open, honest Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/258 "2007-01-13T00:42:51Z")
I like cats, also. But I like dogs more than cats. No effense intended. ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/259 "2007-01-13T00:46:28Z")
offense, even ---
**Author:** ![Bugles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bugles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bugles)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/260 "2007-01-13T00:49:51Z")
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