# Have we been sold out by Ms. Pelosi and the Democrats on the Iraq war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079 "2007-01-07T20:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/121 "2007-01-09T15:55:04Z")
[QUOTE=harveyc] I didn’t call cite when you stated 80% approval of the items in the 100 hours agenda. Plus, I said people want us out of Iraq just as much. So you go first … cite! [/QUOTE] [80% support for raising the minimum wage.](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/1/2/154954.shtml), 69% support for easier access to prescription drugs, 56% for stem cell research. I actually asked about supporting for withdrawing immediately, because that’s what you’ve been talking about this whole time. If you’re okay with the troops not leaving for two years, which is okay with 71% of the country, what’s the rush to defund the war? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/122 "2007-01-09T15:57:18Z")
Just realized I linked to NewsMax, so here’s the same story in the [New York Times.](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Congress-Poll.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/123 "2007-01-09T17:50:15Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] So tell us, **harveyc** , WHY do you think the Democrats are focusing on other issues instead of Iraq? What’s their hidden agenda, in your opinion? Why are they selling us out? [/QUOTE] My worst fear is that Ms. Pelosi and the Democrats are putting off defunding/redeploying our soldiers in Iraq until next year for political advantage prior to the 2008 elections. Hearings, investigations and funding the current level in Iraq insures that our troops won’t be coming home for at least a year. This could cost maybe another 1,000 +/- US soldier lives. That is why I think it is imperative that we demand that Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid do what they called on the President to do in August 2006, begin redeploying our troops now. ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/124 "2007-01-09T17:55:56Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] … So does reading other posts carefully. By the way, I think that Pelosi and Reid sent a letter to the President about Iraq on Friday. … [/QUOTE] I believe if you read that letter, it has to do with the “surge” and it does not address redeploying the US soldiers in Iraq now. In fact, Ms. Pelosi said on Sunday that the Congress would not cut funding for the current level of soldiers in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/125 "2007-01-09T18:03:00Z")
Not _at this time_, no. She’s insistent that the funding bill for Bush’s escalation be separated from the rest of the war, obviously so it can be voted on, or down, on its merits. Once it’s defeated, then the far-more-difficult work of applying adult supervision to the Bush administration and ending his war can begin. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/126 "2007-01-09T18:19:16Z")
Its a political strategery, and it ain’t pretty, 'cause it never is. The Dems have the edge now, but not the dominance needed to wrest control from the Bushiviks. To do that, you need the political equivalent to hordes of angry peasants marching on the White House armed with torches and pitchforks. Ugly? Hugh Betcha! Necessary? Your call. They plan to do this by exposing every rotten nuance that lead us into this turd-infested fever swamp. Drag the truth into the sunlight, under oath. The lies leading into it, the wholesale recruitment of Romper Room Republicans to reconstruct, all of it, dragged out into view. The half-truths we’ve been hearing is already pretty bad, but you ain’t seen nothing yet. The hearings will loosen the last shreds of support. And that is necessary because simply being right, simply having the majority of Americans behind us isn’t enough, it has to be utterly overwhelming. Its not enough to point out that the Emperor is nekkid, we have to tie a bow on his shriveled winky. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/127 "2007-01-09T18:33:14Z")
The hearings will only produce a ratification, anyway. [A USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday-Sunday shows that Americans by nearly 2-to-1 want congressional Democrats, not President Bush, to have more influence over the direction the nation takes during the next year.](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-01-08-congress-poll_x.htm) > [@](#): > > Democratic congressional leaders get their highest rating since Bush took office in 2001; 59% of those surveyed say their policies would move the country in the right direction. Republican congressional leaders get their lowest rating: 35% endorse their approach. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/128 "2007-01-09T18:43:45Z")
[QUOTE=harveyc] My worst fear is that Ms. Pelosi and the Democrats are putting off defunding/redeploying our soldiers in Iraq until next year for political advantage prior to the 2008 elections. Hearings, investigations and funding the current level in Iraq insures that our troops won’t be coming home for at least a year. This could cost maybe another 1,000 +/- US soldier lives. That is why I think it is imperative that we demand that Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid do what they called on the President to do in August 2006, begin redeploying our troops now. [/QUOTE] If the Republican party is concerned about the political impact of prolonging the deployment they have a simple remedy: Put pressure on the President to pull out now. But instead the Republican strategy seems to be to dig in their heels, run out the clock, and dump the mess in the lap of the next President. If you’re going to be pissed at someone, why not the Congressional Republicans? They’ve been letting this fester for years! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/129 "2007-01-09T18:54:40Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Its a political strategery, and it ain’t pretty, 'cause it never is. The Dems have the edge now, but not the dominance needed to wrest control from the Bushiviks. [/quote] Especially in the Senate, where on a strictly party-line vote, we’d have a 50-49 edge, since Sen. Tim Johnson won’t be up and voting for awhile. And in anything having to do with the war, we know Lieberman’s a lost cause, so the Dems need GOP help to get a majority on anything war-related. So the Dems have to work within their strengths. They’ve got the bully pulpit, and they can and are about to hold hearings. And Bush needs to get another ‘emergency’ funding bill through Congress to pay for his war, which he will need Democratic votes to do. > [@](#): > > To do that, you need the political equivalent to hordes of angry peasants marching on the White House armed with torches and pitchforks. Ugly? Hugh Betcha! Necessary? Your call. Hey, I’ve been [ready for that for months now!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7387258&postcount=103) ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/130 "2007-01-09T19:33:54Z")
[QUOTE=harveyc] My worst fear is that Ms. Pelosi and the Democrats are putting off defunding/redeploying our soldiers in Iraq until next year for political advantage prior to the 2008 elections. Hearings, investigations and funding the current level in Iraq insures that our troops won’t be coming home for at least a year. This could cost maybe another 1,000 +/- US soldier lives. That is why I think it is imperative that we demand that Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid do what they called on the President to do in August 2006, begin redeploying our troops now. [/QUOTE] Your _worst_ fear is that we’ll still have troops in Iraq in 2008? You don’t have much of an imagination. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/131 "2007-01-09T19:39:21Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Sen. Tim Johnson won’t be up and voting for awhile. Haven’t Senate rules routinely permitted proxy voting for quite a few years now? ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/132 "2007-01-09T21:31:41Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] If the Republican party is concerned about the political impact of prolonging the deployment they have a simple remedy: Put pressure on the President to pull out now. But instead the Republican strategy seems to be to dig in their heels, run out the clock, and dump the mess in the lap of the next President. If you’re going to be pissed at someone, why not the Congressional Republicans? They’ve been letting this fester for years! [/QUOTE] I was peeved at the Pub Congress, like many Americans, and that is why they were voted out of control. We were suppose to get a new direction in the Iraq war, Ms. Pelosi, Mr. Reid called for redeployment in 2006, and now it appears the Democrats are taking the same “stay the course” strategy the President did, i.e. saying they will not cut funding for the current level of soldiers in Iraq. We have been sold out and many, many more American soldiers will die. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/133 "2007-01-09T22:14:11Z")
[QUOTE=harveyc] now it appears the Democrats are taking the same “stay the course” strategy the President did, i.e. saying they will not cut funding for the current level of soldiers in Iraq. We have been sold out and many, many more American soldiers will die. [/QUOTE] This is ridiculous. Bush is about to announce his surge plan and they’re already coming out against it. This isn’t staying the course, they’re just not doing something that only you believe would work. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/134 "2007-01-09T22:34:07Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Haven’t Senate rules routinely permitted proxy voting for quite a few years now? [/QUOTE] One has to be able to speak or write to give another one’s proxy. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/135 "2007-01-09T22:38:26Z")
Johnson was just upgraded to “fair” - he might be able to do just that. ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/136 "2007-01-09T22:38:39Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] This is ridiculous. Bush is about to announce his surge plan and they’re already coming out against it. This isn’t staying the course, they’re just not doing something that only you believe would work. [/QUOTE] They are NOT cutting funding for the current level of soldiers in Iraq, it is staying the course. They are only fighting the “surge.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/137 "2007-01-09T23:13:14Z")
[QUOTE=harveyc] They are NOT cutting funding for the current level of soldiers in Iraq, it is staying the course. They are only fighting the “surge.” [/QUOTE] You know you just repeated exactly what I said, right? I said they were opposing the surge. Characterizing that as “staying the course” is ridiculous, because like I said the first time, nobody except you believes that funding cuts would work or be a good idea. Neither Pelosi nor Reid promised the troops would come home immediately (because it’s impossible). It is impossible for them to sell you out on something they didn’t promise. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/138 "2007-01-10T01:51:02Z")
For **harveyc** : your very own [Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=403403). Just because. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/139 "2007-01-10T01:55:23Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] Besides the other good points made, any move toward defunding the troops would be political suicide, latched on by the Republicans as indicating the Dems weren’t backing our boys (and girls) in uniform. [/quote] Political _suicide_? 😕 What do you think the voters hired the Democrats to do last November, if not to force a end to the madness? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079/140 "2007-01-10T01:59:25Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Political suicide? What do you think the voters hired the Democrats to do last November, if not to force a end to the madness? [/QUOTE] If you have something that indicates what the voters intent was in November I invite you to post it our post your thoughts on what you THINK the voters intent was…because to me its about as clear as mud, especially wrt the Iraqi war. The only thing I can gleen out of the intent of my fellow citizens seems to be ‘The Iraq war is bad’ and ‘We need to do something™ about it’…other than those vague generalities, I’m not seeing a lot of intent in the general population. Just a lot of flailage, as usual. -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-sold-out-by-ms-pelosi-and-the-democrats-on-the-iraq-war/387079.md?page=8)