# Have we been taken for a ride? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 11, 2021, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232 "2021-01-11T05:50:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/21 "2021-01-11T06:45:10Z")
AOC’s statement that they came close to half of the House nearly dying is a gross exaggeration but there was a significant level of threat. There were certainly a lot of rioters running around the Capitol and it’s likely that some of them had seriously violent intentions. There were also a lot of armed policemen and if the rioters had become a physical threat to the politicians, many of them would have ended up dead like that one woman. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/22 "2021-01-11T06:46:48Z")
> [@ishamael69](#): > > I guess I don’t understand what the democrats are doing other than typical speechifying. [Here’s what the Democrats are doing.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump/democrats-in-congress-kick-off-efforts-to-drive-trump-from-office-after-violence-at-capitol-idUSKBN29G0DT) Trust me, a vote on impeachment in less than two weeks is doing much more than typical speechifying. > [@ishamael69](#): > > I guess I don’t understand why the republicans would leave him in power if they are scared of his base. They’re riding the tiger, and they don’t dare let go. That’s the ones that have an ounce of scruples, of course; the remainder are hoping to use Trump’s base to advance their own careers. Then too, there’s the ones who aren’t total MAGAts, but who still see things as “us against them”. Democrats vs. Republicans, as a zero-sum game. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/23 "2021-01-11T06:58:20Z")
> [@ishamael69](#): > > I bet you $5000 that if Pelosi passed a bill that said “the ACA is hereby repealed if this bill passes the Senate prior to Jan 20th”, the Senate would vote on it tonight. Try to stay away from Las Vegas. You seem to have no idea how bills are passed, or who passes them. ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/24 "2021-01-11T07:05:14Z")
Wow. So if I understand that correctly, the democrats feel that making sure Biden has a comfy start is more important than holding a tyrant and his minions who tried to take over the presidency accountable? They can pass a completely useless resolution tomorrow but not potentially useful articles of impeachment? I’m sorry if I seem rude or anything. It is incredible to me to think that in the United States of America someone can attempt a violent coup and just… get away with it. No jail. Not even immediate dismissal from office. A Twitter ban is all you get for attempting a coup? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/25 "2021-01-11T07:11:26Z")
> [@ishamael69](#): > > Wow. So if I understand that correctly, Apparently, you don’t. There are procedures that must be followed, and people trying to hold on to power trying to stall those procedures. “Immediate dismissal from office”-by who? ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/26 "2021-01-11T07:14:24Z")
As far as I am aware, a House member sponsors a bill, which is then taken into the appropriate committee. If it passes a committee vote, then the House debates and votes on it. The Senate has a similar process. Then, once past both houses, a committee of both houses reconciles any differences and sends to the president. I know there is a lot more detail than that, but I think that is the basic process. I also know there are all sorts of mechanisms and workarounds to cut steps out _when they want to._ Did I get anything wrong? Are you saying that the Senate has left us with no way at all to consider emergency legislation prior to Jan 20th? I have a hard time believing that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/27 "2021-01-11T07:15:59Z")
> [@ishamael69](#): > > I remember when I was younger there was some issue with the national do not call registry, and congress passed a bill through both houses in around 24 hours. Do you have a cite for the particular legislation you’re thinking of? It would help to have a factual idea of what you’re comparing the current situation to. > [@ishamael69](#): > > I would expect a coup attempt to be of similar urgency and importance. Do you think that removing and/or impeaching a sitting President of the US for criminal incitement of seditious insurrection shouldn’t take any more time or procedural complexity than passing an ordinary legislative bill modifying regulations about opting out of telemarketing calls? ISTM that that’s a bit like trying to argue that because you can renew your driver’s license in an hour or less at your local DMV, you should be able to get a contested divorce from your spouse equally quickly if your spouse has started violently abusing you. That’s not how legal procedures work. Complicated processes like divorce and impeachment don’t magically become lightning-fast just because the need for them becomes dire. > [@](#): > > I guess I don’t understand what the democrats are doing other than typical speechifying. What do you think they ought to be doing that they aren’t? They are setting in motion the necessarily cumbersome legal procedures for attempting to get a sitting President removed or impeached. Did you imagine that, say, Nancy Pelosi had the power to shout “Off with his head!” and have Trump instantly removed, as long as the situation was a Really Serious Threat? > [@ishamael69](#): > > I guess I don’t understand why the republicans would leave him in power if they are scared of his base. I don’t understand why you’re having trouble understanding that. In words of one syllable: They are scared that Trump’s base will be mad at them if they don’t back up Trump. They are scared that if Trump folks are mad at them, those mad Trump folks might vote them out or kill them. Clearer now? > [@ishamael69](#): > > Do they want the military involved next time? My guess is that everybody except perhaps Trump himself and various undeterred MAGA insurrectionists is earnestly hoping that there won’t be a next time. > [@ishamael69](#): > > I bet you $5000 that if Pelosi passed a bill that said “the ACA is hereby repealed if this bill passes the Senate prior to Jan 20th”, the Senate would vote on it tonight. You would lose your bet if I were mean enough to take you up on it. [The Senate schedule between now and January 20 is already set, and explicitly rules out any non-unanimous legislative measures:](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/01/mcconnell-impeachment-trial-trump-leaves-office.html) > [@](#): > > McConnell explained why an impeachment trial likely wouldn’t begin until after President Donald Trump leaves office. > > The Senate is not scheduled to reconvene for substantive business until Jan. 19. Although the Senate is scheduled to meet twice next week it can’t do anything substantial on those days, including “beginning to act on received articles of impeachment from the House,” without the unanimous agreement of all 100 senators. “It would require the consent of all 100 senators to conduct any business of any kind during the scheduled pro forma sessions prior to January 19, and therefore the consent of all 100 senators to begin acting on any articles of impeachment during those sessions,” [the memo states](https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1347722877521567747). > [@ishamael69](#): > > How hard is it to write up articles of impeachment and vote on them? Exactly [this hard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States#Procedure): > [@](#): > > At the federal level, the impeachment process is a three-step procedure > > - First, the Congress investigates. This investigation typically begins in the [House Judiciary Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_the_Judiciary), but may begin elsewhere. For example, the [Nixon impeachment inquiry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon) began in the Senate Judiciary Committee. The facts that led to [impeachment of Bill Clinton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton) were first discovered in the course of an investigation by [Independent Counsel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Office_of_the_Independent_Counsel) Kenneth Starr. > - Second, the [House of Representatives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives) must pass, by a simple majority of those present and voting, articles of impeachment, which constitute the formal allegation or allegations. Upon passage, the defendant has been “impeached”. > - Third, the [Senate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate) tries the accused. In the case of the impeachment of a president, the [Chief Justice of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Justice_of_the_United_States) presides over the proceedings. For the impeachment of any other official, the Constitution is silent on who shall preside, suggesting that this role falls to the Senate’s usual presiding officer, the [President of the Senate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presiding_Officer_of_the_United_States_Senate), who is also the [Vice President of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States). Conviction in the Senate requires the concurrence of a two-thirds [supermajority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermajority) of those present. The result of conviction is removal from office. ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/28 "2021-01-11T07:18:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Immediate dismissal from office”-by who? Congress through impeachment, as I’ve said. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/29 "2021-01-11T07:19:15Z")
> [@ishamael69](#): > > Congress through impeachment, as I’ve said. As has been pointed out to you, more than once, _there is nothing immediate about that procedure._ ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/30 "2021-01-11T07:23:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > At the federal level, the impeachment process is a three-step procedure > > - First, the Congress investigates. This investigation typically begins in the [House Judiciary Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Committee_on_the_Judiciary), but may begin elsewhere. For example, the [Nixon impeachment inquiry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon) began in the Senate Judiciary Committee. The facts that led to [impeachment of Bill Clinton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton) were first discovered in the course of an investigation by [Independent Counsel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Office_of_the_Independent_Counsel) Kenneth Starr. > - Second, the [House of Representatives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives) must pass, by a simple majority of those present and voting, articles of impeachment, which constitute the formal allegation or allegations. Upon passage, the defendant has been “impeached”. > - Third, the [Senate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate) tries the accused. In the case of the impeachment of a president, the [Chief Justice of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Justice_of_the_United_States) presides over the proceedings. For the impeachment of any other official, the Constitution is silent on who shall preside, suggesting that this role falls to the Senate’s usual presiding officer, the [President of the Senate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presiding_Officer_of_the_United_States_Senate), who is also the [Vice President of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States). Conviction in the Senate requires the concurrence of a two-thirds [supermajority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermajority) of those present. The result of conviction is removal from office. Excellent summary of the impeachment process, but I’ll note the Chairman of the House Judicial Committee has already OKd skipping the first step. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/31 "2021-01-11T07:24:54Z")
> [@ishamael69](#): > > Are you saying that the Senate has left us with no way at all to consider emergency legislation prior to Jan 20th? I have a hard time believing that. Why? What “emergency legislation” powers do you think the federal Congress has? The government branch that’s supposed to deal with emergencies in the immediate term is the Executive Branch. This is why the 25th Amendment to the Constitution, which you may have been hearing about somewhat in the last few days, explicitly places the authority to remove presidential powers from a President who is incapacitated in the hands of the Vice President and Cabinet members, not the Congress. (Although Congress does have to vote on their decision within 21 days if the President contests their removal.) I give you three guesses why the Vice President and Cabinet members are not falling over themselves right now in their haste to remove presidential powers from Trump. ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/32 "2021-01-11T07:29:12Z")
This is my understanding of the impeachment process as well. Now, since the impeachment articles are drafted and we can skip the first step, what is preventing the House from impeaching tomorrow as soon as they convene? The schedule? ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/33 "2021-01-11T07:38:57Z")
Sorry, I guess I should have said urgent impeachment instead of immediate removal. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/34 "2021-01-11T07:40:00Z")
> [@ishamael69](#): > > what is preventing the House from impeaching tomorrow as soon as they convene? The schedule? [They are requesting an executive invocation of the 25th by Pence and the Cabinet first:](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/10/pelosi-says-democrats-will-move-forward-with-trying-to-remove-trump-457257) > [@](#): > > The House will try to pass a measure on Monday imploring Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment, through which he and the Cabinet declare Trump “incapable of executing the duties of his office, after which the Vice President would immediately exercise powers as acting president.” If Republicans object, as is virtually certain, Democrats will pass the bill via a roll call vote on Tuesday. > > “We are calling on the Vice President to respond within 24 hours,” Pelosi wrote. “Next, we will proceed with bringing impeachment legislation to the Floor.” So, the House Democrats will try on Monday to pass a removal request measure. If the Republicans object, they will have to wait till Tuesday to pass the bill via roll call vote. If the removal request is not complied with, the House Democrats will bring in the impeachment legislation. Given that the insurrection attempt only happened last Wednesday afternoon, and Congress had to finish up some pretty important work in certifying the election immediately following that, and it has taken a few days to get more detailed information on exactly what happened, I really don’t see why you think that the timetable of official reaction so far in any way indicates that Democratic legislators aren’t taking this situation seriously. I agree with you that a lot of Republican legislators aren’t taking this situation seriously, which I think is criminally irresponsible of them, but we’ve seen some of the incentives they have to try to downplay it. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/35 "2021-01-11T07:42:20Z")
CNN good enough for you? [Trump impeachment: Democrats promise quick move to impeachment if 25th Amendment push fails - CNNPolitics](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/politics/james-clyburn-impeachment-senate-trial-biden-cnntv/index.html) > Pelosi said the House will attempt to pass a resolution by unanimous consent Monday morning calling for Pence and Trump’s Cabinet to invoke [the 25th Amendment](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/politics/25th-amendment-explainer/index.html)and remove Trump from office. > If the resolution doesn’t pass by unanimous consent – and it most assuredly won’t given likely Republican resistance – then the measure will be brought to the floor for a full vote on Tuesday. > The resolution will call on Pence to respond within 24 hours and, if not, the House would move to impeach the President. ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/36 "2021-01-11T07:51:06Z")
I appreciate you all taking the time to dumb it down for me. It seems slow and ineffective to me. Kind of like something from the 1700’s. 🙂 I apologize if I seem daft. I did not mean to upset anyone. I see my country under attack; my kids’ futures in jeopardy, and there is nothing that I can do about it, and those who can do something just don’t seem to care. I think criminally irresponsible is a great term for it. ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/37 "2021-01-11T07:54:34Z")
One last thing, part of what I don’t get… In the CNN article and the others (all of which I believe, I have not disputed any sources, I don’t think) the house is going to “pass a resolution” calling on Pence to enact the 25th. Why? He isn’t going to do it, so why spend the extra legislative time doing it rather than simply impeaching? Why not do your job instead of calling on others to do theirs? ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/38 "2021-01-11T08:04:53Z")
Get him and the others on the record. Both for political purposes, and (perhaps) future prosecution. Besides, it _is_ Pence’s job to invoke the 25th - _that’s_ the emergency means to bench the president quickly. If/when he doesn’t step up, then the House can. It won’t be as fast, but it’s the only other method. Who knows, after a couple of days of pressure, Pence and the rest of the Republican leadership may even do the right thing. The Republicans have been losing sponsors, various businesses and organizations are pulling contributions. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/39 "2021-01-11T08:31:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > No, the Vice President and congress were **not** “nearly killed.” You know the now-famous video where the lone Black police officer is retreating up a flight of stairs ahead of a crowd of screaming insurrectionists? And there’s that moment where he gets to a corridor in the middle of the stairwell, briefly looks to an open door at the far end of the hall, and then turns around to shove the lead rioter before hurrying away from the open door with the mob in pursuit? Beyond that open door was a small group of Congressional officials, unguarded. If the rioters hadn’t chased the police officer, if they’d ignored him and turned to go through that door, they would have encountered the unprotected people. Based on the available timelines, it was a solid minute before additional backup agents and officers arrived on the scene from elsewhere in the building to escort those officials to a secure location. That quick-thinking officer _absolutely_ saved those people’s lives, and he _absolutely_ deserves every civilian medal that can be offered him. It is an exaggeration to say that _all_ of Congress was at risk of death. But it is a _miracle_ measured in mere ticks of the clock that _no_ elected officials were taken by the bloodthirsty mob and killed for the cameras. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232/40 "2021-01-11T09:18:37Z")
> [@ishamael69](#): > > It seems slow and ineffective to me. Kind of like something from the 1700’s. Heh, that’s not a bug, it’s a feature. Seriously, even in an appalling situation like this one, it’s a good thing that something as serious as removing an elected President from office is not an easy or quick process in a democratic society. We don’t want hasty shortcuts there. > [@ishamael69](#): > > I did not mean to upset anyone. I see my country under attack; my kids’ futures in jeopardy, and there is nothing that I can do about it, and those who can do something just don’t seem to care. 'Sokay, I sympathize. But we didn’t get into this mess quickly, and we’re not going to get out of it quickly. What we’re dealing with here is the accumulation of nearly a half-century of Republican anti-democracy trends. Republicans since the 1980s have been trying to control and dominate government on a platform of being fundamentally opposed to government authority (except in a war context) and rejecting the basic premise that government is supposed to serve its citizens and use its powers to accomplish things for them. This has the double advantage of pleasing the wealthy donor class, whose interests are served by a laissez-faire government with little regulation, low tax rates, and an insecure and hence docile labor force, and appealing to ordinary voters’ ideals of independence and self-sufficiency. The trouble is that government strongly favoring the interests of the wealthy tends to be bad for everyone else. Precarious job security, limited access to healthcare, environmental pollution, degraded education, etc., tend to make people miserable even as they keep labor cheap and taxes low. If that’s what your policies entail, you can’t be honest about it without turning off a lot of voters. So the Republican Party has embarked on a huge mission of deflection, distraction, disenfranchisement and disinformation. Keep insisting that more tax cuts and less regulation and ever faster enrichment of the wealthy is the way forward, even as they keep on failing to make ordinary Americans more prosperous. Lie outright about inconvenient environmental and economic problems, because confronting them honestly would conflict with the interests of the wealthy donor class. Encourage voters to think that the problem is that government is simply bad, and that Democrats are bad because they’re pro-government, so government by Republicans is not really government and therefore good, and any of its outcomes that are bad must somehow be the fault of Democrats. Build up a sustained propaganda campaign of conservative media and think tanks so voters will distrust mainstream news and opposing opinions. Encourage constant outrage and paranoia about controversial social issues so that voters will lean harder into tribal partisanship instead of compromise and critical thinking. Discourage and dissuade as much as possible voting by non-Republicans. Now, the party positions have been a lot more mixed over the past forty years than this simplified sketch suggests. There have been plenty of Democrats whose economic policies have favored the wealthy at the expense of the non-wealthy, and plenty of Democratic pundits and politicians fanning the flames of partisan outrage, and quite a few Republicans who sincerely tried to use government to make things better for Americans in general. But overall, certainly in the last quarter-century or so, Democrats have been far more committed than the elitist-minoritarian Republicans to responsible governance and public service. And Republicans have figured out that they can use anti-government “outsider” rhetoric to obtain office, exploit the power of government to benefit their own interests and those of the donor class, recklessly generate disastrous situations for the non-wealthy population that the wealthy can make further profits from, and then let the Democrats clean up the mess (hampered at every turn by whatever obstructions the Republicans can put in their way) when a frustrated population temporarily rejects Republican misgovernment. And then, since messes generally can’t be cleaned up in a year or two (especially with opposition-party obstructionism always getting in the way) and Democrats themselves are by no means perfect, come back to the voters next election cycle with more anti-government “outsider” rhetoric and blame all the problems on the Democrats again. Trumpism is just the latest and most drastic iteration of this cycle, not an aberration from normally functioning democracy. The Republicans haven’t been trying to cooperate in normally functioning democracy for a long time now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-been-taken-for-a-ride/930232.md?page=3)