# Have we gained anything by banning "cowboys & indians"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750 "2011-05-04T21:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/41 "2011-05-05T14:15:44Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > In the 40’s your dad may have been fascinated by superheroes but he had grown out of it by the time he joined the army. That or he was considered immature by his peers. In your twenties one may have read sensational men’s magazines but he would be laughed at for reading picture books. Actually, no. Comic books were considered pretty normal reading material for young men back in the forties. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/42 "2011-05-05T14:17:50Z")
And I grew up in the sixties and seventies, in the Northeast, and my brother and I had plenty of toy guns when we were young. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/43 "2011-05-05T15:22:59Z")
Did _anyone_ grow up in the OP’s imaginary seventies? I grew up in the 80s in gun-hating Britain, and there were toy guns aplenty on toy shop shelves- not just the laser kind, but the good old projectile kind. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/44 "2011-05-05T16:41:10Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Huh. I’m a girl and had My Little Pony and a castle for it. I was also an avid reader. I read a book about King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, totally fell in love, and from them on, my ponies used to besiege the castle after it was taken over by enemy mauraders. No guns, but plenty of swords and lances and such-like. > > Sometimes they used their Camaro as a siege weapon, though. 🙂 That’s the best thing I’ve ever read. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/45 "2011-05-05T16:44:22Z")
For the record, they still make little green army men. I had a box when I was a kid in the 90s. The military effectiveness of your army as a fighting force was directly proportional to the loudness and variety of gun and explosive noises you could imitate. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/46 "2011-05-05T16:46:45Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I have a feeling Nunzio and Starving Artist might get along very well. That’s got to be an insult to _somebody_, but it’s hard to figure out which one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mrklutz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@mrklutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrklutz)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/47 "2011-05-05T17:37:28Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > For the record, they still make little green army men. I had a box when I was a kid in the 90s. The military effectiveness of your army as a fighting force was directly proportional to the loudness and variety of gun and explosive noises you could imitate. The military effectiveness of our army guys was directly proportional to how well we could provide them cover against dirt-clod artillery. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/48 "2011-05-05T17:41:49Z")
[Disapproval of toy guns for children predates the Seventies.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saki#.22The_Toys_of_Peace.22) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/49 "2011-05-05T18:00:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wait… how is parents deciding how to raise their own children an example of the “nanny state” in any way, shape, or form? Do you even know what the phrase “nanny state” refers to? Miller, anything that makes a conservative feel threatened is a nanny state thing. And you, with your definitions and understandings and meanings of words … you’re pretty nanny state yourself! ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/50 "2011-05-05T18:07:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Did _anyone_ grow up in the OP’s imaginary seventies? I’m wondering if anyone grew up in a, um, idiosyncratic version of the 60s so we can bridge the gap between the Starving Artist 50s and Nunzio’s 70s. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/51 "2011-05-05T18:23:28Z")
My kids will be transitioned to _Daleks and Doctors_ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/52 "2011-05-05T18:58:12Z")
My mom, in the 80s and 90s, was weirdly idiosyncratic about this. On one hand, we were not allowed to shoot toy guns at each other, and no real projectiles were allowed: LaserTag was target-shooting only, and no Nerf or ping-pong ball guns. On the other hand, squirtgun arms races were permitted, and we had absolute LOADS of GI Joes and whatnot. My wife’s experience in the late 80s and early 90s is more typical of what the OP was talking about–her mom would open up her action figures and take away all the little toy weapons (ninja turtle swords, etc) before my wife could play with 'em. Of course, my wife’s mom is so liberal she literally gets sick to her stomach knowing I keep a decorative sword on the wall of my den and have a few guns locked in a cabinet in the basement, so I doubt this is anywhere near as typical as the OP seems to think. This is central PA in the 80s-90s I’m talking about, including State College which has been a bastion of ridiculous student political opinions since time immemorial. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/53 "2011-05-05T19:11:39Z")
Quoth **shy guy** : > [@](#): > > They just introduced a Super Soaker that reloads with magazines for god’s sake. This is new? When I was a kid in the 80s, all the cool kids had powered squirt guns with swappable magazines (most of which looked like Uzis or other real guns). They faded away because Super Soakers (the original, hand-pumped kind) turned out to have longer range, more capacity, and never ran out of batteries. Oh, and concerning my mom who didn’t allow toy guns: I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t have minded if I had wanted to go hunting with my uncles and cousins, with _real_ guns, provided I made it clear that I understood those weren’t toys. And she also didn’t object to action figures with guns (at least, not per se: Most of the cool action figures were outside our budget). I think her real worry was that toy guns would lead towards a similarly casual attitude towards the real thing (though the incidents of kids getting shot when their toys were mistaken for real probably reinforced that). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/54 "2011-05-05T19:42:38Z")
My oldest was born in 1981, and we sure didn’t get the memo. And both my girls had Super Soakers. The younger one’s best friend didn’t play with guns, but his parents were Quakers which probably had a lot more to do with it. I can see kids not specifically playing Cowboys and Indians, due to the realization that Indians were not bad guys, but I heard no significant anti-gun sentiment. And around 1960 - 1963 I had plenty of comic books. Which would have made me a rich man today if I had only kept them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/55 "2011-05-05T21:19:32Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I can see kids not specifically playing Cowboys and Indians, due to the realization that Indians were not bad guys, but I heard no significant anti-gun sentiment. Probably had more to do with the fact that the Western had effectively died out as a genre by the end of the '60s. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/56 "2011-05-05T22:44:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Probably had more to do with the fact that the Western had effectively died out as a genre by the end of the '60s. Not in the Dennis Mitchell household it didn’t. Cowboy Bob will never die. Actually. while there were no TV shows, there were still plenty of old movies and reruns. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/57 "2011-05-06T18:04:43Z")
I talked with my mom about this… she took the opposite tack from the gun-ban mothers. She loaded me up with all the toy guns and army toys I could stand, so that hopefully I’d get tired of it, and quit finding it so fascinating, and not want to join the military as a teenager or young adult. (I planned to anyway, but to be a pilot, and from there, an astronaut, but when I read about how competitive it was, I decided to do something where I wouldn’t dedicate my life to something I’d have such a small chance of actually succeeding at) ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/58 "2011-05-06T21:55:49Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > [Disapproval of toy guns for children predates the Seventies.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saki#.22The_Toys_of_Peace.22) “The Toys of Peace.” That was absolutely hilarious. It’s amazing how something written a century ago feels like it could have been written last week. Thanks for the link. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750/59 "2011-05-08T10:55:31Z")
Little boys love to play war or pirates. For some reason in my neighborhood, we weren’t that big on war, but loved to play pirates. Which is basically killing people on sea instead of land 🙂 And whether or not you had guns made no difference, as you could always find a stick and if worse came to worse, use your thumb and forefinger. Violent crimes have always gone through cycles. And it’s important to remember they are usually qualified cycles. For instance, violent crimes went way up during Prohibition in the USA, but the violence was specific at drug gangs. The average person wasn’t really involved in the violence. During WWII the violent crime rate fell to all time lows. This was generally attributed simply to the oversupply of well paying jobs. In recent years the periods from 1980 to 1984 and 1991 to 1999 saw the steepest declines of violent crime in America. This seems good however when you qualify it you can see it’s not so good. In both cycles, the poorest of the poor and the wealthiest citizens saw violent crime GO UP, not down. But the average poor to the average rich saw their rates stay steady or go down. In 2005 - 2007 the violent crime rates rose again. Once again you see qualifications. DC and Detroit which had bad violent crime rates, went down while places like Texas and Atlanta went up. Basically what you see is patterns. Perhaps the DC and Detroit market were tapped out so the criminals moved to the “thriving” South. Contrary to TV, criminals aren’t stupid and they don’t immediately use violence to solve their problems. Even Mr Loan Shark the guy on TV and in movies who breaks knees, isn’t going to stay in business long once it gets around he’s breaking everyone’s knees. The loan sharks break knees, among other things, no doubt; but they have other less violent means to enforce their polices. In this case many simply use debtors to due high risk drug activities. So does playing with guns equal violence. Probably not much, but the one clear thing that no one disputes is violent crime and all crimes, go down when you have good jobs that pay living wages. And that makes sense, when people have something to lose they’re gonna be cautious. When they have nothing to lose, why not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-gained-anything-by-banning-cowboys-indians/580750.md?page=2)