# Have we lost Codinghorror? **URL:** \ **Category:** Site Feedback\ **Created:** [October 25, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884 "2020-10-25T23:02:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/81 "2020-11-01T16:28:40Z")
It just seems odd to me that a program designed to encourage discussions actually has features built into it for the purpose of discouraging discussions. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/82 "2020-11-01T16:34:45Z")
nm  ETA (everything below is an edit): Didn’t work. Also, hitting the quote on your nm doesn’t show me anything in the preview pane except the nm itself. I tried that before, and tried it again just now. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It just seems odd to me that a program designed to encourage discussions actually has features built into it for the purpose of discouraging discussions I think that people have different ideas about what encourages and what discourages discussions. I agree that it can make a whole lot of difference how the moderators are behaving; it also makes a whole lot of difference who’s in the community – though moderators have some control over that as well. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/83 "2020-11-01T16:34:54Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > > If the software is saying, “nope, you’re not allowed to make that type of thread or post in that way”, that’s a problem. Software shouldn’t dictate content in that way. That’s what the mods are for. > > You continue to mistake the perfect software for SDMB with the perfect software for everyone. No one disputes that our perfect platform would not automate moderation to the extent of Discourse. But you are simply wrong when you extend that to all message boards. Yup. I participate on some message boards where this software, with all its built-in safety rails, would be terrific. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It just seems odd to me that a program designed to encourage discussions actually has features built into it for the purpose of discouraging discussions. The point isn’t to discourage discussion. The point is to help guide discussion so they will be pleasant and helpful for all. This board has fairly active moderation, and fairly considerate posters. I’ve been on boards with a handful of posters completely dominate to the detriment of everyone else. Here, some mod would stop by and say, “hey you, stop posting to this thread”, but most boards don’t have the manpower or the will to do that. And that’s where Discourse would be a godsend. There are all sorts of features of Discord that I don’t care for. (And some implementation choices the SDMB made that I don’t care for, too.) But overall, it’s terrific software that’s very well thought out. It’s also very flexible. If we had an active admin, we could CHANGE most of the things you don’t like without making any changes to the software – just by tweaking settings. Would we want to? Maybe. I expect that when we get a new admin those discussions will be had. Maybe Ed has the capacity to do it eventually, I dunno. (But I assume he retired for a reason, and can’t spend all his time dealing with this board.) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/84 "2020-11-01T16:39:34Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > nm    You left off the semicolon -   ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/85 "2020-11-01T16:40:09Z")
nm  ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/86 "2020-11-01T16:43:11Z")
Aha! – but that’s at least as much work as adding enough other extra characters to satisfy discobot. Plus which I have to remember the exact extra characters to add. So I don’t suppose I’ll usually bother; but I’ll try to make a note of that somewhere in case I ever very badly want to make a post with fewer than five characters in it. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/87 "2020-11-01T16:53:09Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Aha! > > – but that’s at least as much work as adding enough other extra characters to satisfy discobot. Plus which I have to remember the exact extra characters to add. So I don’t suppose I’ll usually bother; but I’ll try to make a note of that somewhere in case I ever very badly want to make a post with fewer than five characters in it.  You can remember that it stands for “non-breaking space”. It’s useful for adding to the end of quoted replies so that discobot doesn’t disappear them. The other shortcut for the same non-breaking space is &160; I used it to keep your quoted reply visible in this post. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/88 "2020-11-01T16:54:26Z")
nm. **needscoffee** covered it. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/89 "2020-11-01T18:30:53Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > You can remember that it stands for “non-breaking space”. It’s useful for adding to the end of quoted replies so that discobot doesn’t disappear them. The other shortcut for the same non-breaking space is &160; > I used it to keep your quoted reply visible in this post Faster and easier to just leave off the final punctuation mark, or whatever, in the quote. It probably won’t help me in particular to remember that it stands for “non-breaking space” because that’s not a term I ordinarily use. I’ll see whether it sticks in my head, though. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/90 "2020-11-01T19:19:06Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Yet we seem to have got defensive pushback from @codinghorror on pretty much all suggestions across the board, which as I intimated in the other thread on flag comments, takes away a potential win-win collaboration and the open-minded consideration of constructive comments from actual users. I don’t see the “win” part for **codinghorror**. I’m sure he gets enough constructive comments from the other 1,499 (from the [wiki on Discourse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse_%28software%29)) forums (some of which look to be profitable businesses) that he doesn’t need more from one forum that identifies itself to be very unique. Based on the posts I saw of his, he just wanted to participate like any other member and help out where he could in his area of expertise like any member who has specialized knowledge. IMO, he wasn’t allowed to do that even if he technically could. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/91 "2020-11-01T20:12:35Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > Whereas this is a board full of strong-willed people who want to write what they want to write, the way they want to write it, damn it! > > For example, I recently got that post about “you’ve replied too many times to poster X in this thread; maybe you should let other people participate more and not monopolise the conversation.” (My paraphrase) > > That was in a thread that’s been going on for three months and has 241 posts. Yes, clearly, I’m monopolising the discussion with my three replies to one other poster. I am so ashamed, 😩 and so grateful for Discourse trying to keep the thread from being derailed. 🥵 I’ve gotten the “you’ve replied three times to the same person” message, but isn’t it just a nag, one that you can ignore? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/92 "2020-11-01T20:32:45Z")
It makes me feel unwelcome. Really, it’s just a politely worded “shaddup already!” ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/93 "2020-11-01T21:00:06Z")
To be honest, it’s a far more trigger-happy version of “get a room, you two!”. It still needs to be disabled, if possible. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/94 "2020-11-01T21:01:20Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > **coddinghorror** isn’t just _anybody_ , he’s the guy who made discourse. Yup. In true SDMB fashion, we looked the gift horse in the mouth and found it wanting. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/95 "2020-11-01T21:04:00Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > To be honest, it’s a far more trigger-happy version of “get a room, you two!”. It still needs to be disabled, if possible. It may in fact be possible to disable the message. I don’t know. I suspect there are _many_ tweaks that haven’t been made because we don’t have a board administrator. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/96 "2020-11-01T22:54:27Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > Yet we seem to have got defensive pushback from @codinghorror on pretty much all suggestions across the board, which as I intimated in the other thread on flag comments, takes away a potential win-win collaboration and the open-minded consideration of constructive comments from actual users. > > I don’t see the “win” part for **codinghorror**. I’m sure he gets enough constructive comments from the other 1,499 (from the [wiki on Discourse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse_%28software%29)) forums (some of which look to be profitable businesses) that he doesn’t need more from one forum that identifies itself to be very unique. > > Based on the posts I saw of his, he just wanted to participate like any other member and help out where he could in his area of expertise like any member who has specialized knowledge. IMO, he wasn’t allowed to do that even if he technically could. At this point I’m purely expressing my subjective opinion, but the “win” part for **codinghorror** is simply the straightforward part of the feedback and user interaction. There is no question that the company that Jeff co-founded has been innovative and successful, but so have many others that subsequently crashed. Like DEC, for instance (Digital Equipment) which at its peak had worldwide revenues of over $26 billion in today’s dollars and was renowned for its innovation and the expertise and methodological discipline of its engineering. But DEC was also commensurately arrogant (albeit in their very refined gentlemanly way) correctly assessing its innovative products as being technologically superior, and in their view, that was all that mattered – what customers were actually doing in the real world didn’t matter and was often viewed as stupid. That same sea change in technology that DEC was ignoring almost killed mighty IBM, too. My experience with the tech industry is that arrogance is never a virtue, and humility and the willingness to listen brings many rewards. If this sounds like sanctimonious preaching, I apologize, but it is lived experience. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/97 "2020-11-01T23:00:56Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Yup. In true SDMB fashion, we looked the gift horse in the mouth and found it wanting. - A couple of those molars _do_ need work. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/98 "2020-11-01T23:48:21Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Faster and easier to just leave off the final punctuation mark, or whatever, in the quote. > > It probably won’t help me in particular to remember that it stands for “non-breaking space” True dat.   is a HTML thing that HTML nerds would know. But it’s still easier to add or remove a punctuation mark or some such, which is what I often do. Actually, I couldn’t easily remember the   thing (nb @needscoffee: gotta have that # in there too) but I can remember   so I’ll probably use that more now. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/99 "2020-11-02T20:22:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > > > Just about any large software product has a design aesthetic behind it. It’s not simply a collection of features; it’s a cohesive whole where every piece fits into the overall design. > > Yes, and Discourse clearly has a design esthetic, and codinghorror clearly cares a great deal about that. > > I think some of the tension on this board is because the design esthetic isn’t really a great fit for this board. Codinghorror is clearly proud of how his software nudges people to write the sort of post that he thinks makes for nice on-line discussions. _ **Whereas this is a board full of strong-willed people who want to write what they want to write, the way they want to write it, damn it!** _ And have for the past (up to) twenty years been able to indulge that desire. Damn it![sup]2[/sup] Fuck it, there’s a case in point. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884/100 "2020-11-02T20:28:08Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > The short post thing is similar. I would like to be able to have a 2-3 letter reply sometimes (Like “yes” or “no” or “NM”) but that’s also configurable. > > You can do that, if you know the magic sacred cryptic secret. See the immediately following post. > [@Senegoid](#): > > nm  I USED to know the magic sacred cryptic secret. It was being able to find the keys with “n” and “m”. Then they changed it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-lost-codinghorror/923884.md?page=6)