# Have we morally failed Afghanistan? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636 "2021-08-14T00:47:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/183 "2021-08-17T03:48:58Z")
Personally I’d say thinking we had to modernize Afghanistan was a mistake. I think there’s a chance we could have supported the tribal/feadal power structure that existed and helped maintain some level of stability that held off the Taliban in a more sustainable way. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/184 "2021-08-17T03:59:42Z")
> [@shh1313](#): > > It built. It name is Northern Lights Pipeline. Read the Northern Lights Pipeline wikipedia article. Then read The Atlantic First, just so you know, the “Atlantic” article you quoted is _not_ from the magazine _The Atlantic_; it is from a political think-tank, “Atlantic Council.” Secondly, I read the Wikipedia article, and I read the Atlantic Council article. There is _zero mention_ of Afghanistan in either article, and the Northern Lights Pipeline goes nowhere near Afghanistan. What is the point you are trying to make? ---
**Author:** ![shh1313](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shh1313/32/8020_2.png) [@shh1313](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shh1313)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/185 "2021-08-17T04:01:12Z")
Northern Lights is the back history and CIA Involvement late sixties, seventies . Northern Lights Pipeline tied into Nordsteam 1. Then into Nordstream 2 = GAZAPROM = Russia Gas and oil. > **[Northern Lights (pipeline)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Lights_(pipeline)#cite_note-cisyafimava-1)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Northern Lights (Russian: Сияние северa, Siyaniye Severa ) is a natural gas pipeline system in Russia and Belarus. It is one of the main pipelines supplying north-western Russia and is an important transit route for Russian gas to Europe. > The Northern Lights pipeline system was built in the Soviet Union from the 1960s to 1980s. Construction of the Vuktyl–Ukhta–Gryazovets–Torzhok section started in 1967 and was completed in 1969. By 1974, the pip... > **[Biden must freeze Putin’s pipeline and prevent this “bad deal for Europe”](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/biden-must-freeze-putins-pipeline-and-prevent-this-bad-deal-for-europe/)** > > By taking steps to block the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, US President Joe Biden has a real opportunity to build a new transatlantic security consensus while revitalizing the US-German relationship. Biden Role: - This was, in sum, a “calculated decision” by the Biden administration that an “agreement was far better than the pipeline being completed with no agreement,” **Dick** says. [FAST THINKING: Nord Stream 2 gets the green light - Atlantic Council](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/content-series/fastthinking/fast-thinking-nord-stream-2-gets-the-green-light/) Remember when Trump had sanctions on Russia? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/186 "2021-08-17T04:03:31Z")
Posting links to the exact same two articles, without spelling out specifically _what they have to do with Afghanistan_, does not help explain your point to me in the slightest, @shh1313. ---
**Author:** ![shh1313](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shh1313/32/8020_2.png) [@shh1313](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shh1313)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/187 "2021-08-17T04:08:46Z")
@kenobi_65 I was trying to beat the edit window So yes I am aware. I thought I did. I guess I been following this 5/6 years now/ I assumed everyone knew this. Especially here. ---
**Author:** ![shh1313](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shh1313/32/8020_2.png) [@shh1313](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shh1313)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/188 "2021-08-17T04:14:05Z")
Money, oil, guns, poppies, next up BRI maybe war with Iran. We’ll find out. World War lll next. Just asking I told him, you and I’m done. Bye the way., I’m not a guy. I’m a woman. Stephanie aka Shh1313 ---
**Author:** ![shh1313](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shh1313/32/8020_2.png) [@shh1313](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shh1313)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/189 "2021-08-17T04:37:43Z")
[quote="DeadTreasSecretaries, post:156 Xi Jinping sent a spokes person to Afghanistan last week. Their turn in the barrell. **THIS IS SPECULATION** Xi Ping wants to loan Afghanistan money for equipment for mining and infrastructure. **THIS IS SPECULATION** ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/190 "2021-08-17T05:27:58Z")
> [@shh1313](#): > > Remember when Trump had sanctions on Russia? Remember when we were talking about pipelines in Afghanistan? I do. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/191 "2021-08-17T10:59:43Z")
> [@Somethingwitty1](#): > > If the Taliban gathered their army in a stadium next Saturday to celebrate, I’d have no problem dropping a daisy cutter on them all. But would I flatten Kabul? No. Unlike the former government, which had an all-volunteer army, the Taliban commonly resorted to extremely difficult to evade conscription. If only because of that, I wouldn’t do either. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/192 "2021-08-17T12:33:01Z")
> [@shh1313](#): > > Money, oil, guns, poppies, next up BRI maybe war with Iran. We’ll find out. World War lll next. Money, guns, lawyers. Next up WZ: _I went home with the waitress, the way I always do_ _How was I to know, she was with the Russians, too?_ _I was gambling in Havana, I took a little risk_ _Send lawyers, guns and money, dad, get me out of this, ha_ ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/193 "2021-08-17T13:20:55Z")
I don’t understand why you cited this. What do Lao poppy farmers in the 1960’s have to do with an alleged plan for a pipeline through Afghanistan 40 years later? What do you think this explains? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/194 "2021-08-17T13:32:36Z")
Well, ya see, Wernher von Braun was seriously into chasing the dragon, it wasn’t just a code name for rocket launches, and there was a bit of confusion and Kennedy accidentally invaded Vietnam to get opium for him but Braun preferred Afghan opium so Johnson killed Kennedy and, well, there’s more but you need to do your own research… ---
**Author:** ![shh1313](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shh1313/32/8020_2.png) [@shh1313](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shh1313)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/195 "2021-08-17T15:21:19Z")
@crowmanyclouds and the plot thickens… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/196 "2021-08-17T15:56:50Z")
> [@shh1313](#): > > and the plot thickens… _The clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It’s over there in a box. … The point is taken, the beast is molting, the fluff gets up your nose. The illusion is complete; it is reality, the reality is illusion and the ambiguity is the only truth. But is the truth, as Hitchcock observes, in the box? No there isn’t room, the ambiguity has put on weight._ ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/197 "2021-08-17T19:21:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > But where is the ambiguity? No hay banda! There is no band. Il n’est pas de orquestra! This is all a tape-recording. No hay banda! And yet, we hear a band. If we want to hear a clarinette, listen. It’s all a tape. It is an illusion. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/198 "2021-08-17T19:22:59Z")
And as for Afghanistan, well: Well we barely make the airport For the last plane out As we taxied down the runway I could hear the people shout They said, “don’t come back here Yankee” But if I ever do I’ll bring more money 'Cause all she wants to do is dance ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/199 "2021-08-17T23:11:50Z")
Little\_Nemo, thanks for that response on the Mujahideen, etc. Just\_Asking\_Questions: undoubtedly David Lynch movies make more sense than some of the conspiracy theories currently floating around the Internet. For example, a certain disreputable Congresswoman has declared that Biden is leaving Afghanistan so that his secret partner China can get its hands on rare-earth metals that are situated there. I’m not going to link because it’s, well, disreputable. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/200 "2021-08-17T23:16:38Z")
And now I know why; Pete and Chasten have been in the process of adopting a child. > **[Pete Buttigieg and husband Chasten have become parents | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/politics/pete-chasten-buttigieg-parents/index.html)** > > Pete Buttigieg and his husband Chasten have become first-time parents, the transportation secretary announced on Tuesday. Congrats to them! I just know that child will be much loved. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/201 "2021-08-17T23:22:58Z")
Oh that’s great. So happy for all of them. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/202 "2021-08-18T00:52:39Z")
That’s wonderful! I literally ahhhh’d. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636.md?page=11)