# Have we morally failed Afghanistan? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636 "2021-08-14T00:47:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/383 "2021-08-31T17:02:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No big deal, just set up a government and train an army… nothing the US military (which tried to do this for 20 years and completely and utterly failed) couldn’t accomplish with ease! It wouldn’t have been a big deal if they’d done it in an appropriate way – an army and government appropriate to the country and culture – as has been pointed out many times in these discussions. Instead, they tried to set up an American-style army, backed by hordes of highly expensive contractors, and a puppet government that would jump when they said jump, and was paid to do so. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/384 "2021-08-31T17:13:34Z")
_And the Taliban lay down their weapons, as they held hands and sang songs of love with the Tajiks, Hazara, and and Uzbeks_ _And from that point forward, Afghanistan became a beacon of liberal democracy and self-governance to the rest of the world, a shining city upon a hill._ ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/385 "2021-08-31T17:13:50Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > – an army and government appropriate to the country and culture – Well, they’ve got one now, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/386 "2021-08-31T17:33:46Z")
Of course. Setting up a government and military that functions is “no big deal”, Mr. Rumsfeld. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/387 "2021-08-31T17:58:15Z")
And the _kind_ of army you try to to set up doesn’t make any difference at all, Gen Petraeus? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/388 "2021-08-31T18:24:39Z")
It probably does, but it’s going to be an enormous deal and extremely challenging no matter what kind. Setting up a government and military in another country is just a monumental job. Especially a place like Afghanistan, with very little national cohesion. The idea that it could ever be “no big deal” is the kind of thinking that got us into these foolish and wasteful wars in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/389 "2021-08-31T18:39:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve heard rumors that the software in US aircraft has backdoors? Supposedly the US can brick these aircraft with a software patch? I hope that’s true. I tend to feel this is unlikely. If American aircraft could be disabled by a remote computer message, there would be too much danger of our military being subject to a cyber attack during a battle. I think the more likely long term inhibiting factor is that the Taliban now has some American aircraft - but it doesn’t have access to America’s support infrastructure. How long will these captured aircraft remain usable without maintenance and spare parts? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/390 "2021-08-31T18:58:30Z")
How can they even start them with the key fob 6 thousand miles away? ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/391 "2021-09-03T08:49:52Z")
Also, I don’t think geopolitics and vengeance are asides, especially given the recent admission that the U.S. had no intentions to engage in nation-building. ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/392 "2021-10-30T01:24:35Z")
Why am I not surprised? > **[US nearing a formal agreement to use Pakistan's airspace to carry out...](https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/22/politics/us-pakistan-afghanistan-airspace/index.html)** > > The Biden administration has told lawmakers that the US is nearing a formalized agreement with Pakistan for use of its airspace to conduct military and intelligence operations in Afghanistan, according to three sources familiar with the details of a... ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/393 "2021-11-10T03:04:27Z")
Biden, from 2007: [https://twitter.com/PapiTrumpo/status/1456432645206913027](https://twitter.com/PapiTrumpo/status/1456432645206913027) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/394 "2021-11-10T03:33:20Z")
This guy seems displeased. > **[Justice denied for the victims of Afghanistan’s Mai Lai massacre](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/11/9/afghanistan-drone-strike-justice-denied)** > > The US military killed civilians, lied about it, was caught and still exonerated itself. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/395 "2021-11-10T04:26:53Z")
I still cannot for the life of me grok how after 20 years of training, material, etc, etc of the Afghan Army how we could not have possibly anticipated such an outcome as abject surrender by them. Did we learn nothing about the culture there? How did we not plan for such a contingency? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636.md?page=19)