# Have we morally failed Afghanistan? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636 "2021-08-14T00:47:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/102 "2021-08-16T11:58:13Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > The fact is we do not have the right to tell everyone else in the world how they are supposed to live. {…} Ahh, another one of those SJWs that fail to see the positive history that colonialism has brought us . . . someone remind me what that was again… ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/103 "2021-08-16T12:39:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We know, as a fact, that the US military leadership was either catastrophically incompetent or monumentally dishonest (or both) about Afghanistan for the past 10 years or more. We didn’t know that as a fact before. This is a very important thing for the American people, and the world, to know, and it required a true exit from Afghanistan to confirm this. In what parallel universe did anyone regard statements that > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > progress was being made and there existed the possibility of a real exit from a stable Afghanistan that could defend itself and remain a US ally, at some point in the future as anything other than self-serving bullshit, to be ignored? Even in America, films like _Restrepo_ were winning awards by 2010, rather late in the game but note that it was over 10 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/104 "2021-08-16T12:55:10Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Ahh, another one of those SJWs that fail to see the positive history that colonialism has brought us . . . someone remind me what that was again… English as a lingua franca springs to mind, and that’s without the fact that most first world countries outside Europe (including the US) wouldn’t have existed without colonialism in the first place… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/105 "2021-08-16T12:56:21Z")
The entire military and foreign policy leadership of 4 administrations, as well as a huge portion of the pundit class, was saying this for most of two decades. I’m sure many wise people were skeptical, but this was the position of the institutions of America for the last ~20 years. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/106 "2021-08-16T12:58:13Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > English as a lingua franca springs to mind {…} Well, I’m so glad that more than a century of dealing with the bloody aftermath of colonialism has brought us so much! ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/107 "2021-08-16T12:59:32Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Well, I’m so glad that more than a century of dealing with the bloody aftermath of colonialism has brought us so much! You left out the rest of my reply, which included _the very existence of most of the countries the members here are from_. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/108 "2021-08-16T13:01:29Z")
Yeah, 'cause my country exists because we killed a bunch of English colonialists. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/109 "2021-08-16T13:02:31Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > You left out the rest of my reply, which included _the very existence of most of the countries the members here are from_ . Don’t forget the existence of this message board itself. Of course, some people might not see that as a positive. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/111 "2021-08-16T13:12:36Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Yeah, 'cause my country exists because we killed a bunch of English colonialists. Assuming you’re talking about the US, the country exists because English and French and Spanish colonialists decided they wanted to, well, colonise the place. The whole “War of Independence” thing doesn’t change that. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Don’t forget the existence of this message board itself. Of course, some people might not see that as a positive. That was part of the “English as a lingua franca” thing, but yes. People really underestimate the power of a shared language and the international communication opportunities it facilitates. 🙂 These things always end up being a “Well, what have the Romans ever done for us?” situation, unless you’re referring to The Congo Free State which even I think was unequivocally and appallingly bad in pretty much every way. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/112 "2021-08-16T13:16:46Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Assuming you’re talking about the US, the country exists because English and French and Spanish colonialists decided they wanted to, well, colonise the place. {…} Yeah, all those Native Americans that were in the way and needed killing? Well, broken eggs and omelets and spilled milk… AmIRight? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/113 "2021-08-16T13:17:21Z")
Are you in fact from America? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/114 "2021-08-16T13:18:07Z")
Yeah. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/115 "2021-08-16T13:24:13Z")
Then you know damn well your country was created by English (then British) colonists. Do you wish it didn’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/116 "2021-08-16T13:24:52Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Yeah, all those Native Americans that were in the way and needed killing? Well, broken eggs and omelets and spilled milk… AmIRight? Well, there you go! Biden should have just flooded Afghanistan with millions of white red-state patriots and encouraged the slow genocide of the natives over a period of centuries. Then, at least, the people of Afghanistan could have Freedom™ and Liberty™ just like St. Ronnie intended when He wrote the Constitution the night before the Democrat Sanhedrin cancelled Him! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/117 "2021-08-16T13:25:23Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Then you know damn well your country was created by English (then British) colonists. Do you wish it didn’t exist? At times, yes. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/118 "2021-08-16T13:31:30Z")
The English would have been much better off if the US had allowed Germany to colonize it in the 40’s! We coulda stayed home and y’all could have enjoyed the benefits of German as a lingua franca! ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/119 "2021-08-16T13:50:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > At times, yes. Awww. I don’t feel the same way - see the comment above. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/120 "2021-08-16T14:01:53Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > That’s right. My informal estimate is that 84% of those criticizing the Biden Administration today for _'abandoning the Afghan women_ ’ and such are exploiting the Afghan women’s plight in a spectacularly bad-faith tactic. (They care about the plight of Afghan women and girls not at all.) The communist regime that used to run Afghanistan had a much better record on women’s rights than the religious regimes have. But back when the communists were running Afghanistan, we were supporting the religious rebels in their attempts to overthrow the communists. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/121 "2021-08-16T14:45:51Z")
News reports that Afghans clung to departing U.S. warplane on runway and fell to their deaths as it took off. > **[Photos and videos appear to show Afghans trying to flee the Taliban falling...](https://www.businessinsider.com/kabul-airport-people-fall-from-planes-leaving-afghanistan-videos-photos-2021-8)** > > Footage has emerged on social media of people falling from jets after clinging to aircraft or attempting to stowaway in the fuselage. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/122 "2021-08-16T15:03:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Either way, it’s good that we now know this as a fact. We know, as a fact, that the US military leadership was either catastrophically incompetent or monumentally dishonest (or both) about Afghanistan for the past 10 years or more. We didn’t know that as a fact before. This is a very important thing for the American people, and the world, to know, and it required a true exit from Afghanistan to confirm this. It’s hardly a thing you want the rest of the world to know! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636.md?page=7)