First, let me thank everyone for the insightful replies. As usual, I’m learning many things.
Regarding Bruce Lee’s films, I can’t help but look back at them and sigh over the lost possibilities. He clearly was a historic martial arts talent, yet three of four of his films were terrible in most every way. Enter the Dragon, IMHO, remains the only really good film. The Chinese Connection and Fist of Fury are an abomination.
It would be interesting to know how Less would have weighed in on the current wire craze…
I’m not a huge fan of Jackie Chan. But I remember seeing outtakes of some of his stunts and say “Damn, that man earns his money!” In one he jumped from the roof of one building to the balcony of another without a wire or a net. It scared me just watching, let alone having to do it…
I have to disagree with that. Wire work in something like Big Trouble in Little China works because we’re dealing w/ the supernatural & magical spells. But for regular humans it violates the principle that H.G. Wells talked about: If you see a pig flying over a hedge, that’s interesting. If all sorts of things are flying all over the place, then a pig flying over a hedge is boring.
We’ve already suspended disbelief for the story, and even more so for the outrageous kung fu, and the wire work becomes just plain stupid. If you have a supernatural what’s-it, then it may be okay for the story. As practiced, it seems to be over used and boring.
I think audiences have gotten so used to wire stunts now, there’s an assumption that it is wire-work when, in fact, it may not be. I know watching Men in Black I assumed Keith Campbell’s up-the-wall backflip (He’s the first alien Edwards is chasing at the beginning of the movie) was a wire stunt. Nope, just timing and a very fit stuntman.
I think the reason the outrageous wire stunts work in “Big Trouble in Little China” is that we have “normal guy” Jack Burton reacting to the outrageous stunts. The fight scenes in the Matrix were heightened because of the contrast between rule-bending matrix-reality and real-reality.
My like (or dislike) of wire scenes is purely related to how they are portrayed in the plausibility of the movie’s universe. A fantasy, such as Crouching Tiger, the Matrix, or Superman, creates a universe that allows for the possibility of such suspension (pun!) of disbelief. Elsewhere, it is completely distracting and out of place.
A perfect example is shown comparing Jet Li’s films. Tai Chi Master or Fong Sai Yuk are wire-fu perfection, enjoyable and wonderful within the fiction created. On the other hand, Romeo Must Die is horrible for setting up a gritty realistic normal world where our day-to-day physcis apply, and then ending the film with a massive CG & wire fight that sucks all enjoyment and immersion out of the viewer.
Another example of poor wire use is with several recent Jackie Chan buddy cop movies. Here, the use of wire action in what should be a “realistic cop movie” universe doesn’t play well on the screen. In sill fantasies like Shanghai Noon though, it works enjoyably well.
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My like (or dislike) of wire scenes is purely related to how they are portrayed in the plausibility of the movie’s universe. A fantasy, such as Crouching Tiger, the Matrix, or Superman, creates a universe that allows for the possibility of such suspension (pun!) of disbelief. Elsewhere, it is completely distracting and out of place.
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After reading your post and the posts of others (especially Lemur 866, I agree about the Matrix. For me, the wire stunts actually made the fantasy world work.
But, damn, when I see the three scrawny chicks in Charlie’s Angels (esp. Drew) kicking butt and flying around like crazed tops, the whole wire effect just shuts down all the fun for me.
Plausibility and execution are the keys, I think. Anything that takes us out of the movie is bad. Anything that works within the context of the movie is good. Period.
I mean, neither Harrison Ford nor Keanu Reeves is a medical doctor. But we accept the former in The Fugitive and roll our eyes at the latter in Something’s Gotta Give.
In a weird sort of way, the same thing happens with wire-fu depending on where and how it’s used.
It’s obvious that the OP isn’t very familiar with the genre if he’s complaining about wire-work ruining the genre. Actually, wire-fu dates back to the 1960’s when the genre was first taking shape with the Shaw Brothers and King Hu. A major landmark was Hu’s A Touch of Zen (1969) which contains some spectacular cinematic kung-fu, including a physics defying scene in a bamboo grove that directly influenced Ang Lee’s CTHD. It proved to be a huge influence on kung-fu movies and practially defined the Wu-Xia sub-genre.
Bruce Lee’s gritty realism was actually an anomaly at the time of Enter The Dragon’s release, although its huge success also proved to be a big influence on the genre, giving birth to the Sonny Chiba revenge flicks, among others. Yet, wire-work still wasn’t abandoned. A personal movie touchstone was 1978’s Five Deadly Venoms which featured all manner of impossible stunts, running up walls, and a kick-ass fight on the ceiling. This was manna from heaven as far as a 10 year old kid was concerned and it proves to be one of those rare things that I loved as a kid and still do as an adult. Some other recommended wire flicks from the 80s and 90s would be Heroic Trio, The Bride With White Hair and A Chinese Ghost Story.
As others have said, the genre pendulum oscillates between realism and outright fantasy. It’s just that, along with almost everything else it latches onto, Hollywood is running wire-fu into the ground. However, the technique isn’t inherently flawed, especially when it’s executed with flair in a plausible context. Regardless of Hollywood’s crimes, wire-fu can’t “ruin an entire genre” afterall, to a large extent, it is the genre.
Drew Barrymore thanks bra for weight-loss!
An exaggeration! Of course, I’m sure you’re familiar with the industry buzz during the filming of Angels 2–back when Drew took close control of the editing process to make sure her cellulite was airbrushed out of every single frame. Speaking of bikini shots, you’re aware the pros use wide angle lens, clever lighting, and plenty of airbrushing, no?
New York, Feb 15 (ANI): The “Charlie’s Angels” star Drew Barrymore has given the credit for her recent weight-loss to a sturdy bra. According to a report in rate the music.com, the 28-year-old actress has shed 9.07 kgs since embarking on a daily running regime in the autumn last year.
“It’s made my life so much better. I finally found a great jogging bra too. And that has a lot to do with it,” she said.
Twice-married Barrymore also thinks diet change has helped her too. “I was a full vegetarian, living on carbs. Now I eat more protein”, the actress added. (ANI)
Hodge, thanks for the quick history lesson on wire-work in movies. I had no, absolutely no, idea it went back that far. Your movie recommendations are down on my ‘must see eventually’ list (now at 209 movies and growing).
I humbly defer to your encyclopedic knowledge of all things wire-fu, grasshopper. Now, snatch the coin from my hand…
A couple of questions: Why didn’t Bruce Lee’s films feature wire-fu? I don’t remember ever reading his opposition to it.
Also: I can’t help but think that if “Enter the Dragon” hit the screens tomorrow, audiences wouldn’t be as awe-struck as they were in the early 1970s. I mean, how can Bruce Lee doing three quick roundhouse kicks to an opponent’s head compete with all the high-flying flamboyance one sees in your basic wire-fu flick? Even if you know the latter is special effects, doesn’t it nevertheless still artificially raise the bar beyond human capabilities, thus minimizing the feats of the purist?
BTW, did David Carradine have any credible martial arts prowess? I remember watching an early Chuck Norris film back in the day and having to suffer the indignities of some goon behind me who insisted Carradine could have cleaned Norris’ clock.
No. I saw the people in CTHD run up a will, jump off and fly away. That took nothing away from how cool and graceful Jackie Chan looks when he runs up and over a wall unaided.
This is just speculation, but I think it’s a product of his dual upbringing in the US and Hong Kong and his starring in the Green Hornet TV series. He was probably much more in tune with what Western audiences of the time would be willing to accept than filmmakers based solely in Hong Kong. That, coupled with an independent streak that lead him to create two of his own martial arts disciplines, Jun Fan and Jeet Kun Do when he was dissatisfied with traditional teachings practially guaranteed that he wouldn’t put anything on-screen that wasn’t uniquely his own.
I agree that Enter The Dragon wouldn’t have the same impact now as it did back then, but the same can be said of many important movies throughout history. Citizen Kane’s visual and storytelling innovations have become so widely absorbed into the filmmaking vocabulary that many people viewing today have wondered what the big fuss is. Star Wars unique blend of swashbuckling adventure and high tech special effects fueled the massive blockbluster mentality still so pervasive today that had it been released last year, it would probably be derided by many (witness the ho-hum reaction to the prequels).
However, Idon’t think advances in special effects or technique in any way diminish the accomplishments of those with true ability. Given a choice between the increasingly tedious Matrix movies and the fluid physical poetry of a Jackie Chan flick, I know what I’d choose in a heartbeat. It all comes down to a love of human movement and kinetic energy that is so evident in Police Story or Fist of Legend that is sadly missing in The Matrix or Charlie’s Angels.
Wire-work was used for most Hong Kong-based martial art shows - be it TV or movie. When it was started, it was very, well, strange, but as time goes by, it improves.
The thing is - does the script calls for fire-work? Most of the martial art movies were based on what we could called the wuxia genre, where each combatant has more than ordinary skills. Soaring up into the air while peforming a spinning sword strike is not unheard off. Leaping over a high wall with one stride is a ‘low level’ skill which most combatant knows. It’s the nature of the story that needs wire work, before CG comes along.
But Hollywood has the track record of over-using techniques, much like CG. So is Hollywood using Wire Work in a bad way? Yeah, I suppose so, but that’s my IMHO
Now, snatch the coin from my hand…